• mechoman444
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    2 days ago

    I understand where you’re coming from, and I understand why you believe this is true, especially when you take into account the current consensus among historians and other authority figures on the subject. They generally agree that Stalin and the other figures you mentioned were not fascists.

    I disagree.

    They qualify as fascists under every metric of the definition, and in abundance. Being communist, or labeling Stalin’s system “Stalinism,” does not exclude it from being fascism. Those labels do not change the underlying structure.

    By every measurable standard, they were fascists, unequivocally,

    Saying that a totalitarian ultra-nationalistic authoritative and violent regime isn’t fascist because they called themselves communists is historically and morally disingenuous.

    What a great little technical out for some of the worst people on Earth and in human history to not be called fascists.

    • grinning_serpent
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      1 day ago

      So you’re acknowledging that there’s a general consensus among historians and political scientists and rejecting it anyway?

      Well, you do you I guess.

      • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
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        1 hour ago

        That guy literally won’t even concede the fact that America uses prisoners for slave labor, lol. He doesn’t live in reality.

      • mechoman444
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        1 day ago

        Yes, in this case I am.

        Because this represents a historical double standard. Hitler called himself a National Socialist, and his party bore that name, yet he is almost universally regarded as a fascist. Meanwhile, Stalin called himself a communist, implemented many of the same methods of repression, mass murder, political terror, and totalitarian control, yet he is not considered a fascist simply because he identified as a communist.

        Some of the worst people in history seem to be allowed to define themselves by whatever label they chose, rather than by what they actually did.

        That doesn’t make sense to me, linguistically, historically, or otherwise. Stalin, , and others exhibited many characteristics commonly associated with fascist regimes. The fact that they called themselves communists or attempted to build socialist states does not, in my view, automatically negate those fascistic characteristics.

        It’s perfectly reasonable to disagree with an established historical consensus. We’re not talking about hard sciences like biology or chemistry. We’re talking about history, where conclusions are based on the interpretation of evidence rather than controlled experimentation. Whether history should even be considered a science is a separate debate.

        For that reason, I don’t think a historical consensus should be treated as infallible simply because it is widely accepted.