Doom 3, Doom 2016, Doom Eternal, and Doom Dark Age is Half-Life (or Painkiller/Serious Sam if we split FPS into the 3 actual categories it has in modern times: The labryrinth (boomer shooters), the Story Line (Half-Life), and the Arena Shooter (Serious Sam, Painkiller)).
A better question is: What is System Shock 2, Dishonored, and Prey? FPS? RPG?
Immersive Sim. This slots in with things like Deus Ex and Dishonored.
Though, now that I think about it, I’m not entirely sure what makes something an im-sim vs just being a first person RPG like say TES:Oblivion. In the context of Prey and System Shock, they have a persistent world where killed enemies (mostly) stay dead and items stay picked up. I don’t know if this is the case for games like Deus Ex or Dishonored though, it kind of is true because you play levels, but I think the almost metroidvania feel of Prey and System Shock were a key part of what I now define as an im-sim. But Deus Ex and Dishonored are names that are always trotted out as examples of good im-sims.
Is Selaco an im-sim? I think it is, it has a persistent world which you navigate in a metroidvania style and dead enemies stay dead and picked up items stay picked up. There are upgrades and power ups and light RPG mechanics. However its Steam store page does not list it as one.
So I guess my point is that I know System Shock and Prey are considered Immersive sims but I don’t have much of a fucking clue on what that actually means in detail.
Immersive Sims are FPS games set in believe/realistic maps and have a high degree of interactivity and/or depth. Being able to interact with all the doors, computers, vending machines, toilets, etc. I can’t remember if it was Deus Ex or Duke3D that first coined the term, but a lot of Build Engine games were described as immersive sims (and where I first heard the term) and the biggest things that set Duke3D apart from Deus Ex is Deus Ex has the RPG elements, like character stats, augments, and dialogue trees.
Honestly, tho, the genre is vague enough that if it simulates enough reality in a way that makes you feel like you’re actually in the game world, it could be called an immersive sim.
What makes an ImSim and ImSim is how you interact with it. They’re usually systems-first games. Most of your interactions are not dictated by the game designer, rather they’re emergent from the systems. The typical line of ImSim vs regular FPS is if you can stack boxes to do something the designers didn’t intend. HL2 has boxes, but they’re essentially exclusively placed to be used in a certain way. An ImSim might have a locked door, but you can stack boxes to get into a vent, as an example. It’s all about options, and having the player figure things out for themselves.
I don’t think this is technically an ImSim, but a good example of this is BG3. You can place objects in your inventory, so the designers can’t really prevent you from bringing a hundred crates to climb over a wall, or bringing explosives to instantly kill a boss. They give you tools, and there are many ways they can be used.
I’ve never considered system shock 2 as a first person shooter. I mean, its first person and you shoot things, but that’s like saying GTA 5 is Gran Turismo because cars.
This is DOOM erasure and I will not stand for it
Doom is quake
It’s Quake, but good.
Quake is quake arena
DOOM 2016 is totally Quake
It even has quad damage.
DOOM is Rise of the Triad and Rise of the Triad is Wolfenstein 3-D
Also half-life
No, Erasure was featured in Robot Unicorn Attack, not Doom.
“Despite predating both, Doom is Quake and Half-Life at the same time.”
Doom 1 and Doom 2 is Quake.
Doom 3, Doom 2016, Doom Eternal, and Doom Dark Age is Half-Life (or Painkiller/Serious Sam if we split FPS into the 3 actual categories it has in modern times: The labryrinth (boomer shooters), the Story Line (Half-Life), and the Arena Shooter (Serious Sam, Painkiller)).
A better question is: What is System Shock 2, Dishonored, and Prey? FPS? RPG?
Immersive Sim. This slots in with things like Deus Ex and Dishonored.
Though, now that I think about it, I’m not entirely sure what makes something an im-sim vs just being a first person RPG like say TES:Oblivion. In the context of Prey and System Shock, they have a persistent world where killed enemies (mostly) stay dead and items stay picked up. I don’t know if this is the case for games like Deus Ex or Dishonored though, it kind of is true because you play levels, but I think the almost metroidvania feel of Prey and System Shock were a key part of what I now define as an im-sim. But Deus Ex and Dishonored are names that are always trotted out as examples of good im-sims.
Is Selaco an im-sim? I think it is, it has a persistent world which you navigate in a metroidvania style and dead enemies stay dead and picked up items stay picked up. There are upgrades and power ups and light RPG mechanics. However its Steam store page does not list it as one.
So I guess my point is that I know System Shock and Prey are considered Immersive sims but I don’t have much of a fucking clue on what that actually means in detail.
Immersive Sims are FPS games set in believe/realistic maps and have a high degree of interactivity and/or depth. Being able to interact with all the doors, computers, vending machines, toilets, etc. I can’t remember if it was Deus Ex or Duke3D that first coined the term, but a lot of Build Engine games were described as immersive sims (and where I first heard the term) and the biggest things that set Duke3D apart from Deus Ex is Deus Ex has the RPG elements, like character stats, augments, and dialogue trees.
Honestly, tho, the genre is vague enough that if it simulates enough reality in a way that makes you feel like you’re actually in the game world, it could be called an immersive sim.
What makes an ImSim and ImSim is how you interact with it. They’re usually systems-first games. Most of your interactions are not dictated by the game designer, rather they’re emergent from the systems. The typical line of ImSim vs regular FPS is if you can stack boxes to do something the designers didn’t intend. HL2 has boxes, but they’re essentially exclusively placed to be used in a certain way. An ImSim might have a locked door, but you can stack boxes to get into a vent, as an example. It’s all about options, and having the player figure things out for themselves.
I don’t think this is technically an ImSim, but a good example of this is BG3. You can place objects in your inventory, so the designers can’t really prevent you from bringing a hundred crates to climb over a wall, or bringing explosives to instantly kill a boss. They give you tools, and there are many ways they can be used.
I’ve never considered system shock 2 as a first person shooter. I mean, its first person and you shoot things, but that’s like saying GTA 5 is Gran Turismo because cars.
FPWTWAW
First Person Whacking Things With A Wrench
Yeah but sometimes it’s a crowbar or pipe.
But Half Life has the crowbar…
Half-life’s is more famous, but I was thinking of Deus Ex.
They are half-life
Prey 2006 is totally Half-Life. The other I’ve seen labeled as an immersive sim and those are their own category entirely.
DOOM is Wolfenstein 3D. And get off my lawn.
Quake and Half-Life are Doom clones.
Back in my day if something was called a doom clone it was because it was made with the doom engine. Not because it was a first person shooter.
Quake broke new ground. Proper 3d with dynamic lighting. It was nothing like doom in the regard.
No, all FPSs were commonly called Doom clones until around 1998.
More DOOM erasure. Back in my day we didn’t have “first person shooters” we had Doom clones.