• Doomsider
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    5 days ago

    As long as you back peddle to reality I think we can both agree about modern fascism existing. For a minute there, it sure felt like you where attempting a very ill thought out gaslighting escapade hence the links I gave you.

    I get that you are in denial that the US is the source of neofascism in the modern world and that they have successfully exported it to every nation including China. While I don’t agree with fascism, it has been remarkably effective. I don’t come from the perspective that fascism is spreading. Fascism spread a long time ago. What we see is fascist tendencies becoming more pronounced.

    It is my opinion that the US was a proto-fascist nation. The wealthy used every play from the book of fascism to take control of the US colonies long before there was a word for it. What makes the US unique was the never ending greed and resulting genocide that even a continent of resources could not satiate. A country for the wealthy by the wealthy where enough was never enough.

    You have to hand it to the US for all the propaganda about democracy and liberalism they shoved down everyone’s throat which was often followed by a bullet. It’s persuasive nature has infiltrated human discourse poisoning it with so much doublethink it is like living in 1984 everyday forever. Creating a figurative monster that can’t see its own reflection.

    This propaganda is not unique though as every nation has its lies often to cover up an oligarchy and create a facade of propriety for the people. While not all nations are as extreme as the US they often cite an ideology that they do not actually follow. A great example is free trade which wealthy nations use to abuse global systems to extract wealth.

    Concentration of wealth has always been the devil in the room and no nation has ever compared to the US (except maybe China the last three years). The government AKA the wealthy have a significant amount of control but they obviously want eat their cake and to have it to. This is why US fascists keep so much of business out of governments hands. They can still order corporations around, but get the benefit of appearing detached plus get to take the lion’s share of the profit.

    While US fascism has roots in imperialism, it went far beyond what most countries have done and is more akin to the Mongols or Roman level of continental wide destruction. This US fascism is the modern day version of conquest driven by hate and lust for power combined with technology that has allowed for massive human suffering.

    Another clear example of the US spreading fascism was laying the groundwork and providing the material supports for fascism in Germany. This set the stage for the US fascist campaign of toppling governments the US continues to engage in to this day.

    The US exerted its economic influence and militaristic control over the entire world long ago. They murdered countless innocent people just because they supported something like a leftist movement. Creating civil war and strife, arming both sides, and murdering with impunity was the name of the game.

    All done through the most fascist like of all industries the arms industry, which has evolved into the abomination of the Industrial Military Complex. A fully integrated fascist loving system in just about every nation. With the four worst offenders being The US, France, Russia, and China in order (China beat out Germany recently for #4 arms dealer, way to go!). The big four fascist loving fucks dealing weapons to war torn nations and profiting from human death and destruction.

    On a side note, this really feels like one of those conversations with a racist or sexist person where they are challenging you to prove that racism or sexist exists. It gives me kind of gross vibes to be honest. Not that I mean to imply you are either of these things, just a way to describe the bizarreness of someone who clearly believes something exists but wishes to “challenge” someone. Perhaps it is some perverse form of mansplaining with a leftist twist. Let’s call it Leninsplaining, but I digress.

    Obviously the total economic output is something that is not realistic to control in regard to fascist Italy, hence why I believe you were overstating the control of the state to make your argument. Not sure what you are getting at as my point stands. Also, I went back and erased all that because I felt it was boisterous, rude, and counter productive a long time before you replied. Sorry for the confusion.

      • Doomsider
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        3 days ago

        “If you believe modern states are fascist, then you need to explain how those institutions and structures transformed while preserving a fascist core. Instead, you’ve repeatedly responded to positions I never took rather than the critique I actually made.”

        Back to reality from this kind of garbage.

        I never made the argument that Italian fascism took over the world. In fact, I was clear from the beginning. You are the one who is looking for the apparent answer they already know.

        Save your leninsplaining for someone else. Cheers!

        • AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          leninsplaining

          🧐⁉️

          I never made the argument that Italian fascism took over the world. In fact, I was clear from the beginning. You are the one who is looking for the apparent answer they already know.

          I never claimed you said Italian fascism took over the world. I asked a basic political science question: how did those specific modern structures transform while preserving a fascist core? In otherwords, what connects neofascism to fascism?

          Calling a request for basic structural mechanics ‘garbage’ means that you don’t have an answer. If you can’t map the actual machinery, you don’t have a theory. This is the hard work you refuse to do.

          • Doomsider
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            3 days ago

            You are clearly unable to connect it to anything I said.

            As I already stated your extremely narrow view of what fascism is prevents you from seeing. You take this as being vague or nonspecific. I totally get that.

            I provided multiple examples of my own as well as modern definitions of fascism even from people you sourced. This is ultimately a disagreement over semantics.

            I thought you had the answer to your own question. Perhaps I was wrong, my apologies.

            • AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
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              3 days ago

              You never connected the concepts. Demanding structural rigor is not a “narrow view”. This is the bare minimum required for a coherent framework.

              Your examples are historical anecdotes of state violence that completely fail to differentiate fascism from standard capitalism or imperialism operating at the core of a liberal state. Every example you mentioned that is bad about the US can easily be explained without fascism. Flattening these distinct systems into a single category requires ignoring the core arguments of the very thinkers you are citing and renders the term meaningless.

              Your interpretation of how corporations connect to fascism completely misunderstands Mussolini’s actual model of corporatism. I have pointed this out three times now, and you have yet to address it.

              I have not provided my own definition of fascism because my view isn’t the subject of the critique. I am challenging you to account for the internal consistency of yours. Yet another thing I have stated and you continue to fail to grasp.

              Reducing a fundamental structural and temporal breakdown of political mechanics to a mere “disagreement over semantics” just confirms that you are unwilling to do the work to map your own thesis.

              Your invective responses are just thin veneers for your rhetorical dodging and inability to wrestle with real structural mechanics in actual history.

              • Doomsider
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                3 days ago

                And we are back to saying fascism doesn’t exist because I can’t connect the dots in your head. sigh

                Edit: Just to be clear Fascism didn’t start in Italy.

                • AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
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                  3 days ago

                  And we are back to saying fascism doesn’t exist because I can’t connect the dots in your head. sigh

                  Fixed that for you.

                • AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
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                  3 days ago

                  And we are back to saying fascism doesn’t exist because I can’t connect the dots in your head. sigh

                  Fixed that for you.

                  • Doomsider
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                    3 days ago

                    Corporatism predates Mussolini by almost a hundred years.

                    The only person who pretends not to connect the dots is you.