But Telegram isn’t private/secure by default. By default everything is stored on their servers in an way that’s accessible to admins, whoever buys them or infiltrates their infra - YIKES
I know but your metadata is all they need and cross-referenced with all the other tracking and accounts they have, there’s zero privacy left.
Putting on tinfoil hat: or is it e2e encrypted? They hired Moxie to set up the signal protocol but who knows it’s still in use since it’s closed source? Even if it is still active: what key is used for encryption? Maybe a hard-coded one owned by Meta?
No, I don’t really believe that as according to Snowden in his earliest whistle blowing even the NSA is primarily interested in metadata. You can derive pretty much everything from that alone.
all they need and cross-referenced with all the other tracking and accounts they have, there’s zero privacy left.
Privacy, like security, is about layers. Just because they have your metadata doesn’t mean you go ahead and give them everything else.
Putting on tinfoil hat: or is it e2e encrypted?
Fair criticism, I’d recommend either Signal, Matrix, or XMPP over Telegram/Facebook(Meta).
You can derive pretty much everything from that [Metadata] alone.
Oversimplifying what actually happens. They can infer what may have happened based on other data points but its not 100% accurate. You can avoid all these metadata issues by not using messengers by Google/Facebook/Meta/Telegram in the first place.
I’d recommend either Signal, Matrix, or XMPP over Telegram/Facebook(Meta).
Yes, me too. This whole discussion gave the impression that WhatsApp > Telegram and while this may be true the unfortunately very high adoption of WhatsApp made me argue against it. I’m well aware that Telegram isn’t an alternative but the ones you mentioned are (personally I use Signal and even got a significant amount of people convinced to st least run it in parallel).
And that’s a valid point. Many people use Facebook for the features it provides knowing that they’re giving away their data to a third party. As long as the consumer is aware of what they’re doing and the pros/cons is all that matters.
Yes, but nobody expects modern encryption on legacy services like email. Should email be end-to-end encrypted? Absolutely, but that’s completely unrelated to private 1-1 and group messaging.
You could always do that in Telegram…
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But Telegram isn’t private/secure by default. By default everything is stored on their servers in an way that’s accessible to admins, whoever buys them or infiltrates their infra - YIKES
WhatsApp is owned by Facebook. Are you really arguing privacy here?
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I know but your metadata is all they need and cross-referenced with all the other tracking and accounts they have, there’s zero privacy left.
Putting on tinfoil hat: or is it e2e encrypted? They hired Moxie to set up the signal protocol but who knows it’s still in use since it’s closed source? Even if it is still active: what key is used for encryption? Maybe a hard-coded one owned by Meta?
No, I don’t really believe that as according to Snowden in his earliest whistle blowing even the NSA is primarily interested in metadata. You can derive pretty much everything from that alone.
Privacy, like security, is about layers. Just because they have your metadata doesn’t mean you go ahead and give them everything else.
Fair criticism, I’d recommend either Signal, Matrix, or XMPP over Telegram/Facebook(Meta).
Oversimplifying what actually happens. They can infer what may have happened based on other data points but its not 100% accurate. You can avoid all these metadata issues by not using messengers by Google/Facebook/Meta/Telegram in the first place.
Yes, me too. This whole discussion gave the impression that WhatsApp > Telegram and while this may be true the unfortunately very high adoption of WhatsApp made me argue against it. I’m well aware that Telegram isn’t an alternative but the ones you mentioned are (personally I use Signal and even got a significant amount of people convinced to st least run it in parallel).
Succinctly: neither are good options if privacy is a concern for you.
@gravitas_deficiency This is true. That’s why I run a private XMPP server in my home for me and my family.
Privacy isn’t the reason I use Telegram, so it’s moot.
And that’s a valid point. Many people use Facebook for the features it provides knowing that they’re giving away their data to a third party. As long as the consumer is aware of what they’re doing and the pros/cons is all that matters.
Well the same can be said about email providers …
Yes, but nobody expects modern encryption on legacy services like email. Should email be end-to-end encrypted? Absolutely, but that’s completely unrelated to private 1-1 and group messaging.