It’s about basic respect and empathy. For the record, I’m a woman married to a cis het guy.
That’s the offense??? That the guy’s idea of the ideal first date wasn’t shared by the other party?? What about how she wanted to spend that date? Does that not matter?? And that is what’s supposed to warrant passive aggressive bullying??? Oh no she “wasted” his time what about her time? That’s not as important or?
You’re confusing general freedom with a very specific social situation that comes with certain social obligations. You can do whatever you want. It’s a free country. No one has to go on a date with anyone. No one has to sleep with anyone. You can have whatever type of date you want.
What you cannot do is pull a bait-and-switch on someone. If you agree to a date with someone, there are certain social obligations that come with that. Things like showing up on time, showing up presentable, showing up sober, and being prepared to offer your full attention to your date. It’s like agreeing to come to a wedding and then showing up in a speedo. Sure, it’s a free country, but there are certain obligations that come with certain social situations. And you’re rude or an asshole if you violate these social agreements.
This isn’t something required by law. It is required by the laws of politeness. You’re asking another human being to take time out of their busy life. They’re going to have to find the time and get ready for the date. You’re not obligated to sleep with a date, of course not. But you are at least obligated to give it a shot and see if you hit it off with this other person. You owe them an honest try at it. If it turns out you hate his guts or he does something rude, and you leave after five minutes? That’s fine. You gave him a shot and he turned out to be a creep.
A date has a specific definition. Two adults are in the pre/potential relationship phase. And a date is where you first meet to see if there is chemistry between you to. It requires both people to give their full attention to it. If you’re not willing to do that, or you would like some other type of date, that’s fine. If you’re not willing to give the other person a fair shot, then you should cancel the date entirely.
This is a basic problem of consent. Not sexual consent, but romantic consent. Obviously violating romantic consent is no where as serious as violating sexual consent, but it’s still a violation of consent. Someone agrees to a date under certain conditions, and you try and completely change things at the last minute. It’s the romantic equivalent of stealthing.
(Note: please do not act like a toddler and pretend I claimed that this was as bad as rape. Those are not my words, do not make a bad-faith attempt at putting words in my mouth. Violation of sexual consent is obviously much greater a violation than this. But violation of romantic consent is still a terrible thing to do to someone.)
why do I need to desperately read this? what am i supposed to get out of that mess? That people will treat me differently when I fail some rule I was supposed to know about? Believe me I know, and guess what I have made the decision a long time ago and it’s been treating me so well ever since that I’d rather live with those consequences and not with the constant fear of tripping some unkown wire.
Like apparently I have to acknowledge that what the girl did was outside of the norm (which I have not even contested by the way) before we can talk about the guy passive-aggressively “teaching her a lesson” by negging her or whatever that is supposed to be. No I won’t. What the guy is advocating for is inexcusable even if she had belched like a walrus
It’s about basic respect and empathy. For the record, I’m a woman married to a cis het guy.
You’re confusing general freedom with a very specific social situation that comes with certain social obligations. You can do whatever you want. It’s a free country. No one has to go on a date with anyone. No one has to sleep with anyone. You can have whatever type of date you want.
What you cannot do is pull a bait-and-switch on someone. If you agree to a date with someone, there are certain social obligations that come with that. Things like showing up on time, showing up presentable, showing up sober, and being prepared to offer your full attention to your date. It’s like agreeing to come to a wedding and then showing up in a speedo. Sure, it’s a free country, but there are certain obligations that come with certain social situations. And you’re rude or an asshole if you violate these social agreements.
This isn’t something required by law. It is required by the laws of politeness. You’re asking another human being to take time out of their busy life. They’re going to have to find the time and get ready for the date. You’re not obligated to sleep with a date, of course not. But you are at least obligated to give it a shot and see if you hit it off with this other person. You owe them an honest try at it. If it turns out you hate his guts or he does something rude, and you leave after five minutes? That’s fine. You gave him a shot and he turned out to be a creep.
A date has a specific definition. Two adults are in the pre/potential relationship phase. And a date is where you first meet to see if there is chemistry between you to. It requires both people to give their full attention to it. If you’re not willing to do that, or you would like some other type of date, that’s fine. If you’re not willing to give the other person a fair shot, then you should cancel the date entirely.
This is a basic problem of consent. Not sexual consent, but romantic consent. Obviously violating romantic consent is no where as serious as violating sexual consent, but it’s still a violation of consent. Someone agrees to a date under certain conditions, and you try and completely change things at the last minute. It’s the romantic equivalent of stealthing.
(Note: please do not act like a toddler and pretend I claimed that this was as bad as rape. Those are not my words, do not make a bad-faith attempt at putting words in my mouth. Violation of sexual consent is obviously much greater a violation than this. But violation of romantic consent is still a terrible thing to do to someone.)
Well said.
Skunk desperately needs to read this, but I’m pretty sure they won’t.
why do I need to desperately read this? what am i supposed to get out of that mess? That people will treat me differently when I fail some rule I was supposed to know about? Believe me I know, and guess what I have made the decision a long time ago and it’s been treating me so well ever since that I’d rather live with those consequences and not with the constant fear of tripping some unkown wire.
Like apparently I have to acknowledge that what the girl did was outside of the norm (which I have not even contested by the way) before we can talk about the guy passive-aggressively “teaching her a lesson” by negging her or whatever that is supposed to be. No I won’t. What the guy is advocating for is inexcusable even if she had belched like a walrus