• Mandarbmax
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    2 days ago

    And what is your solution for one bad party and one worse party in a first past the post system? Just leave the bad party as it is? A third party splitting the vote and handing a win to the worse party? Being smug and not doing anything? Being smug and saying “the revolution will fix everything” and also doing nothing? It seems like you are being smug and trying to convince other people to do nothing too.

    • FlashMobOfOne
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      1 day ago

      There is no choice for most people. Your vote is worthless nationally. Blue and Red MAGA do not give a fuck about you or me.

      If you have a DSA candidate, vote for them.

      But you still have power locally, as Minneapolis and Chicago have shown strongly this year.

    • QuinnyCoded@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      one thing than can be done peacefully that will make a LOAD of difference is ranked choice voting! it’s used in 47 cities and opens the door for 3rd parties to actually get votes without risking Republicans taking majority.

      Here’s a 1 minute YouTube video that explains the basics of how it works https://youtu.be/5ZoFjaTSvQY

      • Mandarbmax
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        2 days ago

        Lovely! I would adore it if we could get ranked choice voting in. Unfortunately, right now we don’t have it. Getting it would require electoral power. Which brings us back to my first comment. It is an unfortunate situation

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          1 day ago

          Even if ranked choice voting were to be won, it still would not be able to change the nature of the bourgeois dictatorship, it would just allow for more choice between bourgeois parties.

          • Mandarbmax
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            1 day ago

            Real talk, if you don’t think that ranked choice voting would help the matter what do you think might? I suspect the answer is no, but do you think there is any voting system that would escape this plight? Is democracy not a viable option and if so what would be a better system?

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              1 day ago

              Voting is great in systems where the working classes actually have some degree of control. Democracy isn’t the problem, it’s what’s presented as democracy within the boundaries of capitalist dictatorship. Electoralism cannot change this dictatorship.

      • tyler@programming.dev
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        2 days ago

        Ranked choice is by far the worst option out of every alternative system. It literally is only better than a single other system… first past the post.

        We should be going for, at minimum, Approval Voting. If we really want a proper system then 3-2-1 and STAR are both vastly superior and combat every known measure that bad actors can take to influence an election.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      1 day ago

      Organizing for revolution isn’t doing nothing. You’ve made a strawman of the only path that actually allows for forward movement.

      • Mandarbmax
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        1 day ago

        So much forward momentum! Just a few more decades I’m sure!

        Jokes aside I’d love to see a left wing revolution in my country but it just doesn’t seem like it is going to happen any time soon.

        Frankly, I think the best way to make it happen is through electoral politics. Getting people to vote also gets them organized and influences them in favor of revolution. Also having governmental power can produce materially better conditions; less repressive police state, more favorable judges, making the economy better so people can organize instead of work a second job, etc.

        The point is that just “organizing for revolution” is just being smug and not doing anything. I’m standing by what I said.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          1 day ago

          Voting isn’t organizing. Voting is engaging directly with the bourgeois state apparatus on its own terms, purely through bourgeois parties. Organizing requires on-the-ground movements, party building, unionizing, striking, and more. The idea that funneling people into a narrow bourgeois framework prepares people for overthrowing said framework is absurd.

          Organizing for revolution is a lot of work, it requires educating yourself and others, building up a party apparatus, building up internal logistics and mechanisms for getting people aligned. It’s like herding cats, it’s incredibly difficult work, and is often thankless.

    • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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      1 day ago

      And what is your solution for one bad party and one worse party in a first past the post system?

      mexico was also stuck in this situation and now they have president shienbaum because they did actual protests instead “no kings” pep rallies.

      • Mandarbmax
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        1 day ago

        Great stuff! I agree that the no kings rallies are not doing enough. I don’t quite see how any of this is contradictory to coopting the less bad political party though.

        • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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          20 hours ago

          A post explaining that you cannot coopt the party including a meme explaining that you cannot coopt a party should make it pretty clear that you cannot coopt the party

          And I shared this example to show that you don’t have to bother coopting the party; the party will come to you if you start protesting the same way Americans did in the 1960’s & 70’s.

          It worked it in back then and Mexico shows that it still worked in 2017.

          And learning how to do it is as easy as watching historical tv footage of the civil right protesters physically assaulting the police and causing property damage and wo permission or watch videos of the Mexicans doing the same thing on social media … assuming that Ellison hasn’t already purged them from TikTok’s libraries. Lol

    • plyth@feddit.org
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      1 day ago

      A third party splitting the vote

      The solution is a fourth party. Split the votes of both parties.

      Even better: Nowadays predictions are solid. Campaign for the third party but retreat from the election unless it is going to be a win.

    • GodlessCommieOPM
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      2 days ago

      Splitting the vote is liberal myth that only exists in their head. This implies that if there were no 3rd party candidates on the ballot, we would vote for your neoliberal war hawk fascists, we would not.