LOCKED: people are getting too heated over a silly meme

go to s/parenting if you want to have a serious conversation about parenting

  • Klox
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    77
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    10 days ago

    If he isn’t saying “You can have your phone back when you empty the dishes” over and over again, it’s a grand dad fail.

    • SailorFuzz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      13
      ·
      10 days ago

      the problem is, how many times does he have to ask for it to happen? Why should he have to beg the child to assist in the house? Does the child not benefit from all that is around them including having a phone paid for?

      So why does he need to ask over and over again?

      • gibmiser
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        38
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        10 days ago

        Because the parents haven’t helped the child understand that being part of a family is being part of a team, and that the kid should help their team.

        That said, it is hard. Kids, just like adults, get tired and don’t wanna do things. Gotta be patient and make achievable goals for them to help with. Start small.

      • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        10 days ago

        Because the flip side of expecting a kid to contribute is being required to teach how to do it and the habits to actually do it.

        • SailorFuzz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          25
          ·
          10 days ago

          Kids are not going to learn how to do things out of logic, empathy and understanding… they’re kids… they’re dumb and selfish. They learn the habits through self-interested rewards, like getting a phone back.

          • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            23
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            10 days ago

            No they’re not, and no they don’t:

            https://childmind.org/article/when-should-you-come-between-a-teenager-and-her-phone/

            One of the basic rules of effective discipline is to make any punishment related to the misbehavior. “If your child violates curfew, taking away the phone is completely unrelated to that behavior,” says Dr. Peters. “You’re not connecting with the kid. You are making them feel bad, which you think is helping them learn, but in fact is helping them learn to be sneaky or learn that you are the punisher.”

            • Viceversa
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              9 days ago

              You can teach children, but not like that and not immediately. While chores should be done. So at first it’s fine to force a chore.

                  • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    4
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    9 days ago

                    Yes. Using physical force to coerce or restrain a child who is not posing a threat to anybody is abuse.

                    https://fountainofyouthbath.com/can-a-person-be-forced-to-taie-a-shower/

                    “Potential Consequences of Forcing Hygiene”:

                    Increased anxiety or distress in the individual.

                    Potential for trauma, particularly if the person feels violated or disrespected.

                    Damaged relationships, as the individual may feel resentment towards those enforcing the action.

                    Community backlash if the enforcement is viewed as abusive or overly controlling.

                    Forcing someone into a shower may lead to slips and falls, especially in vulnerable populations.

                    Potential for the individual to develop aversions to hygiene practices due to negative associations.

                • Viceversa
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  9 days ago

                  grievous harm

                  It’s an exaggeration.

                  If your child is hitting a playmate on the forehead with a shovel in the sandbox, you should forcibly stop him, even though the harm is not grievous.

          • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            9 days ago

            I forgot that you can’t teach kids, and that what you have to do is just let them realize the personal utility of proactively emptying the dishwasher.
            You should just have kids, never teach them anything and get irritated at them when they don’t figure out how to do things when you want.

            • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 days ago

              Thank you.

              You should just have kids, never teach them anything and get irritated at them when they don’t figure out how to do things when you want.

              That is exactly how I learned how to feel guilt and shame instead of how to cook and clean.

            • SailorFuzz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              9 days ago

              You people, who obviously don’t have kids, are insufferable. How do you think teaching works? You just tell a kid something and then boom, its learned?

              When you went to school, did the teacher just tell you things and then you perfectly understood them and remembered it? Or did you have exercises, practices, tests, projects… ya know things to do to apply and possibly fail at?

              Because most people, especially children, domt learn things by just telling them. They domt get it. Until they can relate to it personally. Its the whole “dont touch the stove” part of learning.

              You people obviously live in some fantasy or are complete morons. Take your pick.

              • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                9 days ago

                You people, who obviously don’t have kids, are insufferable.

                Not as insufferable as people who actively defend child abuse. There is a reason I chose not to have kids. There are too many victims already.

              • BenevolentOne@infosec.pub
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 days ago

                I have kids, they help cook and clean, they’re beautiful and I don’t abuse them.

                They have perfect grades, and don’t have any trouble with authority. They understand that their teachers work for them as much as they work for their teachers.

                Unfortunately, it seems not everyone on this earth can be smart and capable. I am very fortunate to be both and have children who are both as well.

          • fodor@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            9 days ago

            Kids, like people, learn all kinds of things in all kinds of ways.

          • howrar@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            9 days ago

            Mine just want to help, and I’ve been told early on that most kids are like that. Let them help when they want to help, even if they’re making your task harder, and they’ll happily do it when they’re actually capable.

        • Earthwormjim91
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          10 days ago

          Cleaning up the dishes from a meal you ate but did not put anything into isn’t being a fucking slave.

          Do your chores

          • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            9 days ago

            I simply said “children aren’t slaves,” and you took that personally.

            Do your own chores, you chose to make the mess.

            • Earthwormjim91
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              11
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              9 days ago

              Then cook your own food. You sound exactly like the spoiled little bitch kids that my friends raise with the same attitude. Worst kids I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna have a hard life when they hit adulthood and realize they actually have to do things for themselves.

              • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                9
                ·
                9 days ago

                Then cook your own food.

                I do. I buy it, I cook it, and I clean up after myself, no dishwasher. It’s difficult because I associate these chores with guilt and punishment because my parents were also authoritarian and abusive.

                You sound exactly like the spoiled little bitch kids that my friends raise with the same attitude. Worst kids I’ve ever seen.

                You sound unhinged.

                They’re gonna have a hard life when they hit adulthood and realize they actually have to do things for themselves

                They almost certainly already have a hard life. Stupid, selfish parents don’t consider how much pain they’re passing along by creating life they can’t care for in a society that expects us all to work to death while the planet burns around us.

          • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            14
            ·
            10 days ago

            Neither are parents.

            They chose the circumstances, they chose to reproduce. The child did not choose to be born.

            • Viceversa
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              9 days ago

              Does that mean that a child is absolved of any chores they don’t like?

              • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                9 days ago

                Generally, yes. Children should have autonomy over their own selves. The challenge for parents is to teach children why chores are worth doing and how to do them without feeling like work or punishment. If parents are not up for that challenge, they probably should not have kids.

          • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            10 days ago

            Does the kid also say this if it comes to clean up the gear in the sports club?

            Good question. If the child chooses to join a sports club, presumably they are expected to clean the equipment. If they don’t like that, they can choose to leave the club or even get kicked out depending on how many times it happens and the club’s policies, which are presumably written somewhere.

            The child did not choose to be born. They have to follow orders under threat of punishment. If they don’t like it, they can’t legally leave. There is no written contract, parents can set and change expectations arbitrarily. It’s a very different situation.