I don’t know OP situation so I’ll reserve some judgment. However, I’m really tired of rhetoric about how alimony is always some evil scheme made to specifically destroy men in divorces.
When people get married, often times one of them gives up their job and start performing unpaid labor. Sometimes neither of them give up their jobs, and one of them still has the majority of household burdens forced onto them, affecting their career and performance.
Alimony is a form of compensation for the unpaid labor and it’s impact on that person’s career. More often than not, when people say ‘my ex wife is taking all my money’, what they are really saying is ‘I deserved free labor at the expense of my ex wife’.
Granted, it’s possible that OP could be a domestic abuse victim in which case alimony is a whole other form of fucked up. But if that’s not the case, then please stop.
Being in a divorce currently, I have noticed a few things that aren’t talked about that I think lead to these memes being so popular.
Divorce laws vary a lot from location to location, in the US they are all state level laws. Not all state level divorce laws are fair to both parties, it seems to get worse if children are involved (some states have recently been adding laws that state 50/50 custody must be the assumed starting point because it hasn’t been).
Even if the divorce laws are written to be fair to both parties in theory, at least in my state, the judge has the flexibility to rule in ways that may seem or even be unfair (what is equatable is complicated).
Even if the judge would or does rule fairly on all issues presented to them, the lawyers (if the parties can even afford lawyers) may be perpetuating gender biases in divorces as well. So the issues may never even reach the judge and just be settled by an “agreement” between the parties pushed by the lawyers.
Most divorces settle, maybe even on terms that heavily favor one party, because going to trial is a lot of money. Lawyers know this and have “games” they can play. like 60%-70% of assets to one party is still cheaper in theory than going to trial for the other party, so they hold that line in negotiations and your own lawyer will push for you to agree to terms like that as a cost/benefit analysis exercise.
Even if none of that happened and it was fair the whole way through, it is a very complex emotional time, and men often don’t have the same level of social support to vent to.
Telling people to stop unless they are in some level of extreme situation is really toxic. People need to vent and be able to talk about what they are going through.
I didn’t tell them to stop venting. I’m telling them not to use phrasing such as ‘taking all MY hard earned money’ which implies that free spousal labor is not a meaningful contribution and dismisses the value of unpaid labor that billions of spouses, mostly women, contribute to the economy.
What’s toxic is how you use your claims of toxicity to dismiss the very real issues of men downplaying the importance of unpaid labor in marriages and divorce.
Venting isn’t an excuse for sexism. Please stop conflating healthy emotional expression with discriminatory language, and then claim toxicity when that gets called out.
So my ex taking alimony despite doing nothing but sitting around the house and playing video games all day for 10 years is fair? You don’t know everyone’s situation or why they view it as their money.
And when I say “doing nothing but sit around and play video games for 10 years,” I genuinely mean that. Wouldn’t get a job, never did housework, I always had to come home from a 10-hour day and clean up the house because she said she would and didn’t.
Why did it take you 10 years to get a divorce? Why did you get married? Sounds like you paid for her for 10 years and didn’t force her to work. How would the court know you didn’t force her to stay home and not work?
Divorce laws are designed to keep the status quo - you paid for her to do nothing for 10 years, and that’s the lifestyle you collectively agreed and provided.
Now you’re mad you have to sleep in the bed you made?
There was no reference to alamony or spousal support in the post, but I tend to see that “taking all my money” phase because of un-equilal division of assets. The post implies they feel there was an un-equilal division, but suggests they are in a better state now that the ex is out of their life despite that, which is a relatively healthy expression for what they are going/have gone through.
Where I am, non-financial spousal contributions are taken seriously and is seen as important as any other form of contribute to the marriage. I know that isn’t the case everywhere and if you experienced your non-financial contributions being downplayed, I am sorry.
Telling people to stop, is sweeping issues under the rug that should be, and need to be talked about. I do agree non-financial contributions get downplayed, it’s shitty that it still happens.
Never said venting was an excuse or the way this venting was happening was perfectly healthy, but that it is necessary to allow people to vent and telling people to stop isn’t healthy.
Again, I never said to stop venting. I said to stop diminishing the value of unpaid labor.
Whether OP was referring to alimony or assets. It doesn’t matter. It’s the same general sentiment the vast majority of people have over divorce, which is that the party performing unpaid labor doesn’t deserve to be compensated.
To dismiss this is as a non-issue is incredibly invalidating to people who have suffered as a result of unpaid labor ruining their career and livelihoods. This rhetoric of divorcees who were not holding a job deserves nothing is exactly the stigma that spouses performing domestic labor is subjected to, and what encourages people to attack divorcees over.
Telling people that this isn’t a real problem is not only unhealthy, but actively perpetuates the stigma against domestic laborers are their perceived ‘lack of contribution’ to the economy when the truth is that world runs on the backs of unpaid labor.
Also going through a divorce. As the “man”, I ended up earning the lion’s share of the money and doing all the “hard work” throughout the relationship. This was because I put in hundreds of extra hours into my career both on the clock and off. I literally went out and faced extreme discomfort, worked jobs that most people would never even consider, and tried my best to be loving and supportive while doing around half of the house work, and basically all of the exterior/automotive work. My spouse was happy to work her chill government job and go to cross-fit to hang out with her friends and work on herself. She had to make dinner occasionally and mop the house sometimes, as I froze my ass off in the cold for weeks on end, and spent an extra 20 or so hours in my car per month just to be with her more frequently. I encouraged her to pursue better job prospects, but she never did. Now she gets around half of everything, objectively benefiting from my hard work while she got to relatively relax.
This is why I am against alimony and am for equal gender rights, except for extreme circumstances such as children or disability. Otherwise, it was probably the “other” spouse’s choice to sit around and do less.
I don’t know OP situation so I’ll reserve some judgment. However, I’m really tired of rhetoric about how alimony is always some evil scheme made to specifically destroy men in divorces.
When people get married, often times one of them gives up their job and start performing unpaid labor. Sometimes neither of them give up their jobs, and one of them still has the majority of household burdens forced onto them, affecting their career and performance.
Alimony is a form of compensation for the unpaid labor and it’s impact on that person’s career. More often than not, when people say ‘my ex wife is taking all my money’, what they are really saying is ‘I deserved free labor at the expense of my ex wife’.
Granted, it’s possible that OP could be a domestic abuse victim in which case alimony is a whole other form of fucked up. But if that’s not the case, then please stop.
Being in a divorce currently, I have noticed a few things that aren’t talked about that I think lead to these memes being so popular.
Divorce laws vary a lot from location to location, in the US they are all state level laws. Not all state level divorce laws are fair to both parties, it seems to get worse if children are involved (some states have recently been adding laws that state 50/50 custody must be the assumed starting point because it hasn’t been).
Even if the divorce laws are written to be fair to both parties in theory, at least in my state, the judge has the flexibility to rule in ways that may seem or even be unfair (what is equatable is complicated).
Even if the judge would or does rule fairly on all issues presented to them, the lawyers (if the parties can even afford lawyers) may be perpetuating gender biases in divorces as well. So the issues may never even reach the judge and just be settled by an “agreement” between the parties pushed by the lawyers.
Most divorces settle, maybe even on terms that heavily favor one party, because going to trial is a lot of money. Lawyers know this and have “games” they can play. like 60%-70% of assets to one party is still cheaper in theory than going to trial for the other party, so they hold that line in negotiations and your own lawyer will push for you to agree to terms like that as a cost/benefit analysis exercise.
Even if none of that happened and it was fair the whole way through, it is a very complex emotional time, and men often don’t have the same level of social support to vent to.
Telling people to stop unless they are in some level of extreme situation is really toxic. People need to vent and be able to talk about what they are going through.
I didn’t tell them to stop venting. I’m telling them not to use phrasing such as ‘taking all MY hard earned money’ which implies that free spousal labor is not a meaningful contribution and dismisses the value of unpaid labor that billions of spouses, mostly women, contribute to the economy.
What’s toxic is how you use your claims of toxicity to dismiss the very real issues of men downplaying the importance of unpaid labor in marriages and divorce.
Venting isn’t an excuse for sexism. Please stop conflating healthy emotional expression with discriminatory language, and then claim toxicity when that gets called out.
So my ex taking alimony despite doing nothing but sitting around the house and playing video games all day for 10 years is fair? You don’t know everyone’s situation or why they view it as their money.
And when I say “doing nothing but sit around and play video games for 10 years,” I genuinely mean that. Wouldn’t get a job, never did housework, I always had to come home from a 10-hour day and clean up the house because she said she would and didn’t.
Maybe not all of your ideaz are winners, Rachel.
Why did it take you 10 years to get a divorce? Why did you get married? Sounds like you paid for her for 10 years and didn’t force her to work. How would the court know you didn’t force her to stay home and not work?
Divorce laws are designed to keep the status quo - you paid for her to do nothing for 10 years, and that’s the lifestyle you collectively agreed and provided.
Now you’re mad you have to sleep in the bed you made?
Right, I forgot it’s super easy to leave an abusive relationship. Eat shit.
Did the court not agree with you that it was an abusive relationship?
There was no reference to alamony or spousal support in the post, but I tend to see that “taking all my money” phase because of un-equilal division of assets. The post implies they feel there was an un-equilal division, but suggests they are in a better state now that the ex is out of their life despite that, which is a relatively healthy expression for what they are going/have gone through.
Where I am, non-financial spousal contributions are taken seriously and is seen as important as any other form of contribute to the marriage. I know that isn’t the case everywhere and if you experienced your non-financial contributions being downplayed, I am sorry.
Telling people to stop, is sweeping issues under the rug that should be, and need to be talked about. I do agree non-financial contributions get downplayed, it’s shitty that it still happens.
Never said venting was an excuse or the way this venting was happening was perfectly healthy, but that it is necessary to allow people to vent and telling people to stop isn’t healthy.
Again, I never said to stop venting. I said to stop diminishing the value of unpaid labor.
Whether OP was referring to alimony or assets. It doesn’t matter. It’s the same general sentiment the vast majority of people have over divorce, which is that the party performing unpaid labor doesn’t deserve to be compensated.
To dismiss this is as a non-issue is incredibly invalidating to people who have suffered as a result of unpaid labor ruining their career and livelihoods. This rhetoric of divorcees who were not holding a job deserves nothing is exactly the stigma that spouses performing domestic labor is subjected to, and what encourages people to attack divorcees over.
Telling people that this isn’t a real problem is not only unhealthy, but actively perpetuates the stigma against domestic laborers are their perceived ‘lack of contribution’ to the economy when the truth is that world runs on the backs of unpaid labor.
Also going through a divorce. As the “man”, I ended up earning the lion’s share of the money and doing all the “hard work” throughout the relationship. This was because I put in hundreds of extra hours into my career both on the clock and off. I literally went out and faced extreme discomfort, worked jobs that most people would never even consider, and tried my best to be loving and supportive while doing around half of the house work, and basically all of the exterior/automotive work. My spouse was happy to work her chill government job and go to cross-fit to hang out with her friends and work on herself. She had to make dinner occasionally and mop the house sometimes, as I froze my ass off in the cold for weeks on end, and spent an extra 20 or so hours in my car per month just to be with her more frequently. I encouraged her to pursue better job prospects, but she never did. Now she gets around half of everything, objectively benefiting from my hard work while she got to relatively relax.
This is why I am against alimony and am for equal gender rights, except for extreme circumstances such as children or disability. Otherwise, it was probably the “other” spouse’s choice to sit around and do less.