I don’t know the rules about relitigating mod decisions, so let me preface by saying that I am not complaining, not trying to undermine any authority of the mods here, and not trying to claim that any nazi groups are in fact not nazis.
First some corrections: When I asked the mod about the ban, they sent me back the message
No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
along with links to educational resources on nazi symbols and this Ukrainian brigade. So this is about rule 1 of lemmy.ml, not about civility, at least according to them. Second of all, I wasn’t saying anything about the Wolfsangel other than “that’s for sure a Wolfsangel symbol”, as your screenshot shows. I was instead confused about whether the shoulder patch of the 44th division was the number 44 written to look like an SS symbol, or the literal SS symbol. I thought it was the former, but have been corrected through banning and deletion.
Now you claim I am a nazi sympathizer (or an idiot). I don’t consider myself either, but I’m always happy to be corrected. I have no sympathy for Nazi’s, as I say, and I have never defended or supported this Ukrainian group or any other. My question about the symbol was a question about the literal symbol on the blurry picture, not because a 44 made to look like an SS logo means they’re not Nazis, but because it matters whether they have to at least have the thinnest fig leaf to hide that fact behind, or whether they’re full on wearing literal SS symbols. It was meant with good faith only.
In our interaction you have oscillated from being an uncivil asshole to just being an obvious debatebro at this point.
Acting like an obvious debatebro combined with that makes any reasonable person assume you’re being disingenuous.
I’m sorry you feel like that. I am here to learn, and have been curious about the leap from “Russia should withdraw” to “you should enlist” which was made earlier. My initial comment was maybe pointed, challenging you to clarify an apparent asymmetry in your argument, and you have. I hope that my restatement of your viewpoint have made it clear that I have been listening. If you could point out specifics of uncivil or bad faith behavior, I’d be happy to correct that in the future. Also I’m not sure what a debatebro is, sorry.
If you’re open to critique yourself, I do feel that calling me dense, dickhead and asshole aren’t peak civility, but I don’t really mind.
I’ll write a longer response some time tomorrow probably. I feel like I’m falling for bait, but I know how it is to struggle with communication and I feel bad about possibly having hurt someone purely because they’re ND or in some other way challenged when it comes to communication.
The short answer is that most of your questions can be found answered in between the vitriol I package it in - I find that you retread the same arguments, while acting as if you do not, you receive answers to questions, yet do not engage with them, you try to frame conversation in a way where key parts of the others arguments are left out and you at times seem to be (at the very best) going far beyond reasonable doubt. None of these are reason for derision in themselves, but they occur in a package and they occur in a community that’s used to a bunch of people behaving very much akin to that acting in bad faith. This latter part is sadly not on you, and it is detrimental to the community at times (like the person going off on someone just asking for a source).
I did not consider your initial comment pointed, it was rather how the conversation continued that made me think of you like so.
I changed my mind with your restatement, since with that statement you engaged with my answers and showed interest in continuing the discussion instead of talking in circles.
If you’re open to critique yourself, I do feel that calling me dense, dickhead and asshole aren’t peak civility, but I don’t really mind
You are completely correct. I don’t consider myself civil in our interaction, because I consider civility to be a two-way street. When I experience a breakdown in civility, then I reciprocrate. I do not consider that critique, it’s very obvious.
I would not worry about relitigating mod actions, though I’m not a mod, so who knows.
I think the response you got was weird, I don’t know what to do about it. I guess you could contact the mod team and ask.
If you are truly interested in learning then I would want you to reach out to Yogthos (for Russia-Ukraine) or Cowbee (General leftism) instead of me. They are both far more knowledgeable, far more patient and far better teachers than I am. You can just send them a DM and if you’re straightforward about your intentions and your questions, then you should have no isse.
Haha, hope your next class is better!
I don’t know the rules about relitigating mod decisions, so let me preface by saying that I am not complaining, not trying to undermine any authority of the mods here, and not trying to claim that any nazi groups are in fact not nazis.
First some corrections: When I asked the mod about the ban, they sent me back the message
along with links to educational resources on nazi symbols and this Ukrainian brigade. So this is about rule 1 of lemmy.ml, not about civility, at least according to them. Second of all, I wasn’t saying anything about the Wolfsangel other than “that’s for sure a Wolfsangel symbol”, as your screenshot shows. I was instead confused about whether the shoulder patch of the 44th division was the number 44 written to look like an SS symbol, or the literal SS symbol. I thought it was the former, but have been corrected through banning and deletion.
Now you claim I am a nazi sympathizer (or an idiot). I don’t consider myself either, but I’m always happy to be corrected. I have no sympathy for Nazi’s, as I say, and I have never defended or supported this Ukrainian group or any other. My question about the symbol was a question about the literal symbol on the blurry picture, not because a 44 made to look like an SS logo means they’re not Nazis, but because it matters whether they have to at least have the thinnest fig leaf to hide that fact behind, or whether they’re full on wearing literal SS symbols. It was meant with good faith only.
I’m sorry you feel like that. I am here to learn, and have been curious about the leap from “Russia should withdraw” to “you should enlist” which was made earlier. My initial comment was maybe pointed, challenging you to clarify an apparent asymmetry in your argument, and you have. I hope that my restatement of your viewpoint have made it clear that I have been listening. If you could point out specifics of uncivil or bad faith behavior, I’d be happy to correct that in the future. Also I’m not sure what a debatebro is, sorry.
If you’re open to critique yourself, I do feel that calling me dense, dickhead and asshole aren’t peak civility, but I don’t really mind.
I’ll write a longer response some time tomorrow probably. I feel like I’m falling for bait, but I know how it is to struggle with communication and I feel bad about possibly having hurt someone purely because they’re ND or in some other way challenged when it comes to communication.
The short answer is that most of your questions can be found answered in between the vitriol I package it in - I find that you retread the same arguments, while acting as if you do not, you receive answers to questions, yet do not engage with them, you try to frame conversation in a way where key parts of the others arguments are left out and you at times seem to be (at the very best) going far beyond reasonable doubt. None of these are reason for derision in themselves, but they occur in a package and they occur in a community that’s used to a bunch of people behaving very much akin to that acting in bad faith. This latter part is sadly not on you, and it is detrimental to the community at times (like the person going off on someone just asking for a source).
I did not consider your initial comment pointed, it was rather how the conversation continued that made me think of you like so.
I changed my mind with your restatement, since with that statement you engaged with my answers and showed interest in continuing the discussion instead of talking in circles.
You are completely correct. I don’t consider myself civil in our interaction, because I consider civility to be a two-way street. When I experience a breakdown in civility, then I reciprocrate. I do not consider that critique, it’s very obvious.
I would not worry about relitigating mod actions, though I’m not a mod, so who knows.
I think the response you got was weird, I don’t know what to do about it. I guess you could contact the mod team and ask.
If you are truly interested in learning then I would want you to reach out to Yogthos (for Russia-Ukraine) or Cowbee (General leftism) instead of me. They are both far more knowledgeable, far more patient and far better teachers than I am. You can just send them a DM and if you’re straightforward about your intentions and your questions, then you should have no isse.