I don’t understand this logic. It had to be quickly developed because the entire world population was affected by COVID. We’re talking about millions of deaths. Economies halted, everything literally went stand still and you expected the vaccine to take 3 years to develop?
I’m sure it might have sounded scary to have medicine developed so rapidly but I don’t think you realize the scale at how it was developed because so many countries and companies dumped a ton of money researching a cure out the door as fast as possible.
Sure there are side-effects but in that case the side effects were worth having versus the deaths of high risk individuals.
Sure there are side-effects but in that case the side effects were worth having versus millions of deaths
I mean, one of the most commonly mentioned side effects was something that happened in a much more serious form with a real COVID infection. It’s the easiest way to meet antivaxxers in the middle if they’re arguing in good faith. Even if there’s a significant side effect of myocarditis, it’s not nearly as common or heavy as the myocarditis die effect of an actual infection.
As I recall, all the side effects of the Covid vaccines are side effects present with other vaccines, and they are all auto-immune responses. You are at a much much greater risk of all of those if you actually caught Covid.
I suppose there is a bit of calculus involved. If you are 100 times more likely to suffer from Guillain–Barré syndrome or myocarditis if you catch a disease, but the disease is exceptionally rare, it might not make sense to get a vaccine. In Covid’s case though, a substantial amount of the general population caught Covid, meaning that the overall risk was substantially reduced by being vaccinated.
Some people just seem to have trouble with risks and percentages; shades of grey rather than black or white. Getting vaccinated isnt 100% the right call, it’s only 99.99+% the right call. Ironic that the same people were totally cool with a 0.5% of Covid killing them, never mind all the other severe side effects. You were asking them to make a choice between 99.99% fine vs. 90% fine or 99.9999+% non-lethal and 99.5% non-lethal. You look at the relative risks though and the vaccine was thousands of times more safe than catching Covid unvaccinated.
Any sort of medical treatment has side effects. For instance I got diabetes, you know what the side effects of using Insulin is? Death. Do you know what the side effects of untreated diabetes is? Death. Do you know what the side effect of life is? Eventually death. We are all going to get there someday, but I mean might as well stretch it out as long as possible, way I see it. There’s so much I want to see, after all. Are the Leafs ever going to win the cup? Am I ever going to see retirement? Do I ever get my Corvette? This lady in the story is never going to have any of those answers, because they were too worried about side effects.
That’s what I don’t get about these people barking about the side effects, I mean it might kill you or make you stupid, sure (I mean it’s possible, but highly unlikely). But so can falling out of bed in the morning. Or you know, COVID or whatever other disease you are trying to prevent. Was it raced out? I mean, sure. But pandemics, you know? Not a lot of time on anyones hands. And I’d say they’ve been pretty god damn effective. Like they bitch about shutting things down and the economy and mAH freedumbs, but then they bitch about racing out the vaccines, it’s like shit, what can we do to make you folks happy here?
because the entire world population was dying from COVID
Okay I’m no anti vaxxer but this is just going to get you laughed at by the people you’re trying to convince.
About 1% was at risk of death, and that’s no small number, and we all had to get vaccinated to protect them, and that’s fine. But outright stating the entire world population was dying is just laughable sensationalism.
If you want to convince people, you’re never going to do it with sensationalism, especially when that sensationalism is so dramatic is flat out wrong.
This woman died because of lies written by around a dozen people and spread by crushingly ignorant people like you. You’re so confident in your stupidity that it’s laughable. We literally don’t care anymore. Take the vaccine, don’t take the vaccine, we don’t care. We’ve moved on from you.
Dunning-Kruger Effect is a cognitive bias whereby people who are incompetent at something are unable to recognize their own incompetence. And not only do they fail to recognize their incompetence, they’re also likely to feel confident that they actually are competent. See also @[email protected]
It was overwhelming hospitals, which means people with other problems were dying, because ambulances were not getting to them, surgeries had to be postponed. If all your firefighters are sick, more people will die in fires and accidents. If a high number of people in a society get sick that society is breaking. No law enforcement, no health care, no working government, no grocery store.
You are one of the people that complain when action is taken and works that that action wasn’t needed because it wasn’t that bad and when no action is taken how bad the government is. And Covid wasn’t at all the worst it could have been. There will be a next virus in the future and people like you will not have learned anything from this one and drive us into an even worse crisis, just by being stubborn.
Best counter point is y2k.
Huge publicity. Massive amounts of money spent.
New year 1999/2000 was uneventful (except for parties).
… Y2k was a hoax, waste of money… Wut?!
It wasn’t. There’s is proof of such. It was removed/mitigated by a huge effort of developers.
You are one of the people that complain when action is taken and works that that action wasn’t needed because it wasn’t that bad and when no action is taken how bad the government is.
Yup, that’s basically the entirety of the whole anti-vax thing in one sentence. Vaccines have been so effective at eradicating so many diseases people don’t have a concept of have deadly diseases can be and can’t grasp why getting a vaccine is so important to protect them from disease.
It did not happen because most people stayed at home, were wearing a mask, followed social distancing rules, were working from home, kept their children at home, washed their hands and got the vaccine when it was available. Again, it did not happen because we stopped it from happening and now you go “it wasn’t that bad” ignoring the billions of people who stopped it from getting that bad.
It’s like “seatbelts are against my freedom” and when everyone wears one to go “look people don’t die in car crashs that proofs seatbelts are unnecessary and only made up by the news” when the reason for them not dying is that they wear a seatbelt.
The vaccine, a mysterious injection that was forced on the population, created by big pharma who has a repuation for dishonesty for decades. Comparing this to seatbelts is a horrible comparision. Seatbelts BTW are straps you wear to ensure you do not go flying out the wind shield during a car crash. No mystery around that, no closed source injection being pumped into your bloodstream when wearing a seat belt.
And COVID mass deaths would of not happen if life was allowed to go on as normal. There were places like South Dakota that did nothing authoritative and I do know South Dakota still exists, life goes on.
Again, stop watching the news. Unplug from the matrix and then you will see the source code to all of this madness.
Economies halted because the public freaked out. The vast, vast majority of healthy people were absolutely fine. Most of those who died, with respect, had relatively few years of life left anyway.
Society should strive to keep these vulnerable people as safe as possible. But I personally think it was incredibly unethical to shut down whole economies just for that.
They already did, that was done before they launched the vaccines. You still don’t think they are safe, so now it is up to you to prove why. Which you can’t, because you have nothing but your feelings to show for it.
They did but it was an abridged version shall we say. Which is fine. It was an emergency and the law foresees this.
But the cultural shift towards harm avoidance at all costs and general authoritarianism (as clearly on display here on this site) led governments the world over to, use heavy handed tactics, shall we say, to get people to take it.
I am absolutely not against the vaccines. I got three doses of Pfizer. But I am profoundly against the heavy handed tactics used in deploying them.
They completed all of the normal testing. The mRNA vaccines technology is decades old. They did all of the normal testing but the stages were done in parallel and pushed ahead of everything else in the pipe. Had any stage failed the approvals would not have been given. This is an anti-vax meme but it is completely false.
I was in Spain at the beginning of the pandemic. The bodies they were stacking in the back of army trucks because their mortuary system had collapsed were not fine.
I don’t understand this logic. It had to be quickly developed because the entire world population was affected by COVID. We’re talking about millions of deaths. Economies halted, everything literally went stand still and you expected the vaccine to take 3 years to develop?
I’m sure it might have sounded scary to have medicine developed so rapidly but I don’t think you realize the scale at how it was developed because so many countries and companies dumped a ton of money researching a cure out the door as fast as possible.
Sure there are side-effects but in that case the side effects were worth having versus the deaths of high risk individuals.
Edit: reduced sensationalism
I mean, one of the most commonly mentioned side effects was something that happened in a much more serious form with a real COVID infection. It’s the easiest way to meet antivaxxers in the middle if they’re arguing in good faith. Even if there’s a significant side effect of myocarditis, it’s not nearly as common or heavy as the myocarditis die effect of an actual infection.
As I recall, all the side effects of the Covid vaccines are side effects present with other vaccines, and they are all auto-immune responses. You are at a much much greater risk of all of those if you actually caught Covid.
I suppose there is a bit of calculus involved. If you are 100 times more likely to suffer from Guillain–Barré syndrome or myocarditis if you catch a disease, but the disease is exceptionally rare, it might not make sense to get a vaccine. In Covid’s case though, a substantial amount of the general population caught Covid, meaning that the overall risk was substantially reduced by being vaccinated.
Some people just seem to have trouble with risks and percentages; shades of grey rather than black or white. Getting vaccinated isnt 100% the right call, it’s only 99.99+% the right call. Ironic that the same people were totally cool with a 0.5% of Covid killing them, never mind all the other severe side effects. You were asking them to make a choice between 99.99% fine vs. 90% fine or 99.9999+% non-lethal and 99.5% non-lethal. You look at the relative risks though and the vaccine was thousands of times more safe than catching Covid unvaccinated.
Any sort of medical treatment has side effects. For instance I got diabetes, you know what the side effects of using Insulin is? Death. Do you know what the side effects of untreated diabetes is? Death. Do you know what the side effect of life is? Eventually death. We are all going to get there someday, but I mean might as well stretch it out as long as possible, way I see it. There’s so much I want to see, after all. Are the Leafs ever going to win the cup? Am I ever going to see retirement? Do I ever get my Corvette? This lady in the story is never going to have any of those answers, because they were too worried about side effects.
That’s what I don’t get about these people barking about the side effects, I mean it might kill you or make you stupid, sure (I mean it’s possible, but highly unlikely). But so can falling out of bed in the morning. Or you know, COVID or whatever other disease you are trying to prevent. Was it raced out? I mean, sure. But pandemics, you know? Not a lot of time on anyones hands. And I’d say they’ve been pretty god damn effective. Like they bitch about shutting things down and the economy and mAH freedumbs, but then they bitch about racing out the vaccines, it’s like shit, what can we do to make you folks happy here?
Okay I’m no anti vaxxer but this is just going to get you laughed at by the people you’re trying to convince.
About 1% was at risk of death, and that’s no small number, and we all had to get vaccinated to protect them, and that’s fine. But outright stating the entire world population was dying is just laughable sensationalism.
If you want to convince people, you’re never going to do it with sensationalism, especially when that sensationalism is so dramatic is flat out wrong.
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This is an oft quoted anti-vax meme and has no connection to reality.
Here is the truth.
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid
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John’s Hopkins
WHO
IPAC Canada
BMJ
Come back with credible, peer reviewed data or fuck off back to Facebook.
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This woman died because of lies written by around a dozen people and spread by crushingly ignorant people like you. You’re so confident in your stupidity that it’s laughable. We literally don’t care anymore. Take the vaccine, don’t take the vaccine, we don’t care. We’ve moved on from you.
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It’s amazing that you are both crushingly ignorant and absolutely confident. You are the walking talking embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
https://gizmodo.com/online-trolls-actually-just-assholes-all-the-time-stud-1847575210
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqq1roF4C8s&t=42s
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=Iqq1roF4C8s&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
https://www.philcooke.com/ignorant-confident/
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Go back to Facebook. Your bullshit has to power here.
It was overwhelming hospitals, which means people with other problems were dying, because ambulances were not getting to them, surgeries had to be postponed. If all your firefighters are sick, more people will die in fires and accidents. If a high number of people in a society get sick that society is breaking. No law enforcement, no health care, no working government, no grocery store.
You are one of the people that complain when action is taken and works that that action wasn’t needed because it wasn’t that bad and when no action is taken how bad the government is. And Covid wasn’t at all the worst it could have been. There will be a next virus in the future and people like you will not have learned anything from this one and drive us into an even worse crisis, just by being stubborn.
Best counter point is y2k.
Huge publicity. Massive amounts of money spent.
New year 1999/2000 was uneventful (except for parties).
… Y2k was a hoax, waste of money… Wut?!
It wasn’t. There’s is proof of such. It was removed/mitigated by a huge effort of developers.
“We spent millions of dollars and a year preparing and NOTHING HAPPENED! All that time and money wasted!”
Yup, that’s basically the entirety of the whole anti-vax thing in one sentence. Vaccines have been so effective at eradicating so many diseases people don’t have a concept of have deadly diseases can be and can’t grasp why getting a vaccine is so important to protect them from disease.
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Stop watching the news man. None of what you said actually happened.
It did not happen because most people stayed at home, were wearing a mask, followed social distancing rules, were working from home, kept their children at home, washed their hands and got the vaccine when it was available. Again, it did not happen because we stopped it from happening and now you go “it wasn’t that bad” ignoring the billions of people who stopped it from getting that bad.
It’s like “seatbelts are against my freedom” and when everyone wears one to go “look people don’t die in car crashs that proofs seatbelts are unnecessary and only made up by the news” when the reason for them not dying is that they wear a seatbelt.
The vaccine, a mysterious injection that was forced on the population, created by big pharma who has a repuation for dishonesty for decades. Comparing this to seatbelts is a horrible comparision. Seatbelts BTW are straps you wear to ensure you do not go flying out the wind shield during a car crash. No mystery around that, no closed source injection being pumped into your bloodstream when wearing a seat belt.
And COVID mass deaths would of not happen if life was allowed to go on as normal. There were places like South Dakota that did nothing authoritative and I do know South Dakota still exists, life goes on.
Again, stop watching the news. Unplug from the matrix and then you will see the source code to all of this madness.
Economies halted because the public freaked out. The vast, vast majority of healthy people were absolutely fine. Most of those who died, with respect, had relatively few years of life left anyway.
Society should strive to keep these vulnerable people as safe as possible. But I personally think it was incredibly unethical to shut down whole economies just for that.
Still waiting for you to cite the risks that outweigh the benefits, now that too much time has passed for you to still thing of it as “rushed”.
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Don’t forget dying on that hill.
Still waiting you to cite that they don’t.
This is a burden of proof fallacy right here. Classic.
They have to prove it’s safe, not vice versa.
Typical leftist authoritarianism. Classic.
They already did, that was done before they launched the vaccines. You still don’t think they are safe, so now it is up to you to prove why. Which you can’t, because you have nothing but your feelings to show for it.
They did but it was an abridged version shall we say. Which is fine. It was an emergency and the law foresees this.
But the cultural shift towards harm avoidance at all costs and general authoritarianism (as clearly on display here on this site) led governments the world over to, use heavy handed tactics, shall we say, to get people to take it.
I am absolutely not against the vaccines. I got three doses of Pfizer. But I am profoundly against the heavy handed tactics used in deploying them.
They completed all of the normal testing. The mRNA vaccines technology is decades old. They did all of the normal testing but the stages were done in parallel and pushed ahead of everything else in the pipe. Had any stage failed the approvals would not have been given. This is an anti-vax meme but it is completely false.
Ah yes, the heavy handed tactics of checks notes zero consequences to the people who didn’t take it.
I was in Spain at the beginning of the pandemic. The bodies they were stacking in the back of army trucks because their mortuary system had collapsed were not fine.
That might have happened in a few cases. I don’t deny there was a real pandemic and vulnerable people were dying.
A few years ago corpses were rotting in a basement of Universidad Autónoma becauae too many people donated their bodies to science. What’s your point?
Neurotic authoritarian.
https://gizmodo.com/online-trolls-actually-just-assholes-all-the-time-stud-1847575210
Cool dude. You sure owned me.
Sorry I didn’t take the bait. Better luck next time.
Neither did I. You were the guys who dogpiled on me.
I think you may be too delicate for social media.
You owned yourself but were too stupid to see it.