• @neanderthal
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    21 year ago

    You’re putting the cart before the horse.

    I really don’t understand what you mean by this.

    So are you giving up?

    • queermunist she/her
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      -61 year ago

      You’re saying that bad thinking is blocking reform.

      I’m saying it is a result of reform being blocked.

      • @neanderthal
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        11 year ago

        I’m saying bad thinking guarantees defeat, and that this isn’t over yet.

        Look at the Kansas abortion ballot initiative debacle. I’d wager that the climate deniers and anti abortion people are largely the same group. That election shows that they can be beaten and probably have more people on our side than they do. I.e. we are the proverbial elephant tied up with a string.

        • queermunist she/her
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          -61 year ago

          That election shows they can be beaten, it doesn’t show the power of positive thinking. That’s still putting the cart before the horse.

          • @neanderthal
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            11 year ago

            So what’s your objective here? Are you trying to refute my point that thought influences action?

            My objectives: 1. pull doomers out of giving up and into trying 2. Inspiring people to take any action at all 3. Hopefully getting some lukewarm fence sitters on board 4. The giant challenge of turning this thing around.

            My reason: I’m a parent. I want my kids to inherit a world that isn’t a climate apocalypse. Even if I lose, they know I cared enough enough to try.

            Here is what frustrates me. Some actions save money, reduce GHG emissions, and are low effort.

            • queermunist she/her
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              -61 year ago

              My objective is to hammer home that actions influence thoughts! There’s a fundamental material underpinning to all politics that you’re ignoring in favor of literal idealism (i.e. the theory that politics springs fully formed from people’s minds). You’ll get more fence sitters on your side with actions than you will with words, because people need to see results to believe change is possible.

              My reason is I’m extremely frustrated by liberals who think we can just debate our problems into submission. It requires blood and sweat.

              • @neanderthal
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                11 year ago

                actions influence thoughts!

                Take a look at the podcast transcript from earlier. We have to believe in our own agency in order to act. E.g. if I don’t think I can safely cross a river, I’m not going to attempt it, even if it is only waste deep.

                literal idealism

                What idealism is that? I’m more of a pragmatist.

                My original point was engaging in doomerism isn’t useful for combating the climate situation and all but guarantees the worst case scenario.

                My reason is I’m extremely frustrated by liberals who think we can just debate our problems into submission. It requires blood and sweat.

                Of course it is going to take some work. We also need debate and noise. For an example of people seeing results, Fox News has been very effective. Social media in particular has been used very effectively to influence behavior.

                My objective is to hammer home that actions influence thoughts!

                What is your reason for so strongly believing that you are right about this?