• @FooBarrington
    link
    English
    61 year ago

    Those axioms cannot be logically derived from some fundamental truth - they must come from one’s own personal belief system, i.e. their “religion” (definition 3).

    You’re re-defining religion here, because even if fundamental axioms are arbitrarily chosen, it doesn’t mean they are adhered to based on faith. I don’t have faith in my principles. I think they are good due to the evidence I’ve seen for them, but if I saw evidence for problems with my fundamental axioms, I’d adopt new axioms. This is fundamentally different from believing in something due to faith.

    • @MooseBoys
      link
      English
      -61 year ago

      it doesn’t mean they are adhered to based on faith

      If not “faith” then what? Note that “faith” doesn’t need to mean some higher power; it just needs to be something you believe without evidence. Any “evidence” you claim to have experienced to support your worldview must inherently be interpreted through an existing lens of one’s own world view, which circularly depends on one’s axioms. You fundamentally cannot have a worldview without some amount of faith in something.

      More concretely, the only thing one can prove a priori is “cogito ergo sum” (“I think, therefore I am”). Any further cognitive reasoning requires faith in one or more axioms about the world, e.g. “the world exists independent of my own perception”.

      • @FooBarrington
        link
        English
        5
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        If not “faith” then what?

        Because I haven’t been convinced by something better. That’s it.

        Note that “faith” doesn’t need to mean some higher power; it just needs to be something you believe without evidence.

        According to what definition? Let’s look at Merriam Webster, since you’re basing your whole argument around their definitions:

        1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY lost faith in the company’s president b (1) : fidelity to one’s promises (2) : sincerity of intentions acted in good faith

        2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return (2) : complete trust

        3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction especially : a system of religious beliefs the Protestant faith

        None of these apply to me, or other FOSS advocates I know. I don’t have a strong conviction towards my basic axioms, since as I said, I simply haven’t come across better ones.

        More concretely, the only thing one can prove a priori is “cogito ergo sum” (“I think, therefore I am”). Any further cognitive reasoning requires faith in one or more axioms about the world, e.g. “the world exists independent of my own perception”.

        And thus you completely devalue the terms “faith”, “religion” etc., because according to you literally everything past “Cogito ergo sum” is faith. Every word you wrote is faith. Everything you think beyond your basic capability to think is faith. It’s fine if you want to decide for yourself that this is how you view these words, but it’s not how other people use them, because they simply have no utility the way you use them.

        • @MooseBoys
          link
          English
          -41 year ago

          It’s fine if you want to decide for yourself that this is how you view these words, but it’s not how other people use them

          Oxford English Dictionary:

          faith: …. a strongly held belief or theory. “the faith that life will expand until it fills the universe”

          • @FooBarrington
            link
            English
            41 year ago

            Once again: my axioms are not strongly held beliefs. How often do I have to repeat this?