Now look at what humans do to cows, or even to other humans. We commit atrocities at a scale that no other species has ever achieved. According to your logic, humans deserve to be treated even worse than cows.
If I wasn’t clear, I’m claiming for the not so pretty side of the story to be told; people tend to romanticize everything, especially when it comes to animals.
I am not in favour, to any degree, to animals being mistreated and/or abused to any degree, regardless if those same animals are a food source.
Raising animals for food is not incompatible with caring and making all humanly possible efforts to assure the animals live a good life.
Raising animals for food is not incompatible with caring and making all humanly possible efforts to assure the animals live a good life.
People won’t ever stop buying from factory farms as long as it’s socially acceptable, or cheaper options with a close enough taste become available.
“Nearly 99 percent of farmed animals in the US are factory farmed. There are around 250,000 farms in the US. Every day, 23 million land animals are killed on these farms – around 266 every second”
I don’t know a single meat eater that doesn’t eat factory farmed meat, including my former self. Do you really believe that people will suddenly start asking about living conditions in restaurants and supermarkets, pay a higher price, and boycot all factory farmed animal products? Speaking of romantizing. This seems like a complete fantasy to me. The vast majority will always buy the cheapest options they can find, no questions asked.
Defending the notion that systematic exploitation is fine, as long as you stab them “humanely” in the throat, provides the ideological basis for treating animals as products, reducing the cost by treating them as worst as possible. Like most people do right now.
As I see it, the only realistic way to end factory farming is if either plant-based meat alternatives or lab-grown meat are produced on a large scale to become price competitive. Which seems to be where things are going for many meat categories, although customer acceptance still has a long way to go.
Let’s start by not comparing EU to the US in therms of animal wellfare. It is a well established fact how the meat industry operates there: growth hormones, terrible living conditions, lack of sanitation, overcrowding, etc. Plus, on that part of the world, processed foods are more affordable than fresh produce of any kind.
We’re not exempt of poor examples but we are way above the line of what the average american will consider good animal welfare conditions. This is not to make a statement that I defend animal rearing as it exist in the current industrial model, which I do not. A lot more can be done and to a degree I feel it is underway.
You are right when you mention economic factors but by some mysterious way, with the crazy inflationary period we’re still living I’ve seen meat prices level, where regular products are as expensive or more than “biological”/animal welfare attested sourced ones, while at the same time people are cutting back on meat consumption to the point retailers and even traditional butcher shops are purchasing less stock.
Paired to this, over the last few decades, hundreds of pig farms and aviaries have gone out of business while more traditional techniques have been brought back, including to cut costs.
Likewise, what I am not going to do is try to make people feel guilty by their dietary options and, by extension, of being alive. Restaurants, hotels and similar places consume and waste obscene amounts of food, in particular meat.
Vegetable production is not exempt of environmental impact and scale is not an argument for me. I’ve seen how greenhouses leave the land when the activities are shutdown, plus the huge water consumptiom, fertilizers and energy. No part is scathe free.
As it is, we already produce more than we require to sustain the entire human population yet waste what should not be wasted. Measures to counter this are lacking, on all fronts.
So, it is quite painful for me when we take it lightly - like a meme - shaming and blaming people for wanting to live.
Please, enjoy and be happy with your dietary option, strike up dialogue and raise awareness but avoid proselitizing.
Every and any animal has a personality; you just need more time to discover it on some species than others.
Cows can be very tame, if from a milk breed, and brutal pointy ended stomping and biting machines if from beef breeds.
Pigs are not tame, at all. I’ve raised potbelly pigs and they could absolute sweets or complete assholes capable of biting or headbutt you without warning. It’s the only farm animal that can revert to feral state.
And chickens know they were once dinossaurs. Get them in sufficient numbers and they become dangerous. Ever seen a fox afraid inside a chickencoop? I have; at a 100:1 ratio, the poor fox was hoping for a fine meal but was instead made a meal.
No because they were not slaughtered on site but you could tell they all knew when someone wasn’t coming back. It made it hard to eat pork realizing that part.
Pigs can have a sense of numbers, like any herd animal. I get your point. But there are breeds and breeds.
To my very limited personal knowledge, landrace breeds tend to be more like that, especially breeds selected to be grazed and kept outside, which made sense as it would be desirable to have a closely knit group, where individuals would look out for each other. And this gave rise to breeds that can be extremely dangerous to other animals, including humans.
Talking with a few pig herders that live around the area I live, Inwas told more “modern” pig breeds tend to be less group and motherly care driven, to the point of sows mauling piglets out of food drive.
Whether we treat animals fairly shouldn’t depend on whether they’re friendly or playful towards humans.
Still, every cow looks curious and investigative. And even if they’re skittish, they’re still much more trusting towards humans than we deserve. If the cow understood what was really happening, it would be horrified of the monsters that humans are towards cows.
Now please stop blaming yourself and your entire species for existing.
Are we supposed to lay on the ground and die because we require animal products to live?
Let’s stop being stupid or coy and assume we either eat meat and animal products and are willing to pay the moral and material price for it or want to whitewash our conscience by making a life of blaming others for just being alive.
Animal products are all across our civilization, regardless you use it personally or not.
Horseshoe crab blood is used to perform specialized tests and analizys. Many forms of gelatin extracted from animal tissues is used to inoculate cultures. Ever heard of lab mice and their importance for scientific research and development, especially when it comes to biomedical and pharmaceuticals? Are you aware that pigs provided human compatible insulin for decades before the synthetic formula was developed? You know replacement heart valves can be harvested from animals? Horses aid in producing antivenoms.
These are very niche yet very important roles animals play to support our entire civilization.
So enjoy your dietary option and allow others to do the same.
Unsure if I fully agree. On one side, yeah cows are exploited. But they get a safe life, with medicine and treatment for illness and physical issues (hooves). Access to food without concern of predators, safe place to sleep and give birth.
Cows are one of the most successful animals in the world because they’re a resource for humans. They are not allowed to go extinct.
I’d say humans are by far the best thing that happened to any domesticated animal.
Now tell the not romanticized portion, where people get to know the average cow is not friendly nor playful towards humans.
Cool, that means we can put them in a cage and eat their children vrfore we eat them. Thanks man.
You missed the “/s” there.
Nah nah, the children are a delicasy. No need for /s
There is so much wrong in those words I can’t decide from which to approach it.
But then again: you do you.
I don’t see how that is relevant.
Now look at what humans do to cows, or even to other humans. We commit atrocities at a scale that no other species has ever achieved. According to your logic, humans deserve to be treated even worse than cows.
If I wasn’t clear, I’m claiming for the not so pretty side of the story to be told; people tend to romanticize everything, especially when it comes to animals.
I am not in favour, to any degree, to animals being mistreated and/or abused to any degree, regardless if those same animals are a food source.
Raising animals for food is not incompatible with caring and making all humanly possible efforts to assure the animals live a good life.
People won’t ever stop buying from factory farms as long as it’s socially acceptable, or cheaper options with a close enough taste become available.
“Nearly 99 percent of farmed animals in the US are factory farmed. There are around 250,000 farms in the US. Every day, 23 million land animals are killed on these farms – around 266 every second”
https://animalequality.org/blog/2022/10/14/factory-farming-facts/
I don’t know a single meat eater that doesn’t eat factory farmed meat, including my former self. Do you really believe that people will suddenly start asking about living conditions in restaurants and supermarkets, pay a higher price, and boycot all factory farmed animal products? Speaking of romantizing. This seems like a complete fantasy to me. The vast majority will always buy the cheapest options they can find, no questions asked.
Defending the notion that systematic exploitation is fine, as long as you stab them “humanely” in the throat, provides the ideological basis for treating animals as products, reducing the cost by treating them as worst as possible. Like most people do right now.
As I see it, the only realistic way to end factory farming is if either plant-based meat alternatives or lab-grown meat are produced on a large scale to become price competitive. Which seems to be where things are going for many meat categories, although customer acceptance still has a long way to go.
Are you in the USA?
No, I’m from Germany. I used the US stats because its the biggest western country. Here in Germany, around 98% of sold meat is factory farmed.
Good morning. I’m in Europe as well.
Let’s start by not comparing EU to the US in therms of animal wellfare. It is a well established fact how the meat industry operates there: growth hormones, terrible living conditions, lack of sanitation, overcrowding, etc. Plus, on that part of the world, processed foods are more affordable than fresh produce of any kind.
We’re not exempt of poor examples but we are way above the line of what the average american will consider good animal welfare conditions. This is not to make a statement that I defend animal rearing as it exist in the current industrial model, which I do not. A lot more can be done and to a degree I feel it is underway.
You are right when you mention economic factors but by some mysterious way, with the crazy inflationary period we’re still living I’ve seen meat prices level, where regular products are as expensive or more than “biological”/animal welfare attested sourced ones, while at the same time people are cutting back on meat consumption to the point retailers and even traditional butcher shops are purchasing less stock.
Paired to this, over the last few decades, hundreds of pig farms and aviaries have gone out of business while more traditional techniques have been brought back, including to cut costs.
Likewise, what I am not going to do is try to make people feel guilty by their dietary options and, by extension, of being alive. Restaurants, hotels and similar places consume and waste obscene amounts of food, in particular meat.
Vegetable production is not exempt of environmental impact and scale is not an argument for me. I’ve seen how greenhouses leave the land when the activities are shutdown, plus the huge water consumptiom, fertilizers and energy. No part is scathe free.
As it is, we already produce more than we require to sustain the entire human population yet waste what should not be wasted. Measures to counter this are lacking, on all fronts.
So, it is quite painful for me when we take it lightly - like a meme - shaming and blaming people for wanting to live.
Please, enjoy and be happy with your dietary option, strike up dialogue and raise awareness but avoid proselitizing.
IME cows were big, dumb and not at all interested in people. Pigs on the other hand have very clear personalities.
Every and any animal has a personality; you just need more time to discover it on some species than others.
Cows can be very tame, if from a milk breed, and brutal pointy ended stomping and biting machines if from beef breeds.
Pigs are not tame, at all. I’ve raised potbelly pigs and they could absolute sweets or complete assholes capable of biting or headbutt you without warning. It’s the only farm animal that can revert to feral state.
And chickens know they were once dinossaurs. Get them in sufficient numbers and they become dangerous. Ever seen a fox afraid inside a chickencoop? I have; at a 100:1 ratio, the poor fox was hoping for a fine meal but was instead made a meal.
I have more experience with pigs than anything else so I’ll take your word for it.
Any horror stories?
No because they were not slaughtered on site but you could tell they all knew when someone wasn’t coming back. It made it hard to eat pork realizing that part.
Pigs can have a sense of numbers, like any herd animal. I get your point. But there are breeds and breeds.
To my very limited personal knowledge, landrace breeds tend to be more like that, especially breeds selected to be grazed and kept outside, which made sense as it would be desirable to have a closely knit group, where individuals would look out for each other. And this gave rise to breeds that can be extremely dangerous to other animals, including humans.
Talking with a few pig herders that live around the area I live, Inwas told more “modern” pig breeds tend to be less group and motherly care driven, to the point of sows mauling piglets out of food drive.
These were kept outside except in rain or during the height of winter so that might be a factor.
Whether we treat animals fairly shouldn’t depend on whether they’re friendly or playful towards humans.
Still, every cow looks curious and investigative. And even if they’re skittish, they’re still much more trusting towards humans than we deserve. If the cow understood what was really happening, it would be horrified of the monsters that humans are towards cows.
Now please stop blaming yourself and your entire species for existing.
Are we supposed to lay on the ground and die because we require animal products to live?
Let’s stop being stupid or coy and assume we either eat meat and animal products and are willing to pay the moral and material price for it or want to whitewash our conscience by making a life of blaming others for just being alive.
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Animal products are all across our civilization, regardless you use it personally or not.
Horseshoe crab blood is used to perform specialized tests and analizys. Many forms of gelatin extracted from animal tissues is used to inoculate cultures. Ever heard of lab mice and their importance for scientific research and development, especially when it comes to biomedical and pharmaceuticals? Are you aware that pigs provided human compatible insulin for decades before the synthetic formula was developed? You know replacement heart valves can be harvested from animals? Horses aid in producing antivenoms.
These are very niche yet very important roles animals play to support our entire civilization.
So enjoy your dietary option and allow others to do the same.
Yes I totally agree, we can be humane to animals and still eat them
Unsure if I fully agree. On one side, yeah cows are exploited. But they get a safe life, with medicine and treatment for illness and physical issues (hooves). Access to food without concern of predators, safe place to sleep and give birth.
Cows are one of the most successful animals in the world because they’re a resource for humans. They are not allowed to go extinct.
I’d say humans are by far the best thing that happened to any domesticated animal.
this is the exact same argument made to keep slaves.
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