The skill is debate and debunking. It should be fairly simple to show a serial lack of honesty and bullshit. If you can show that then it should be fairly simple to get people to stop listening and disconnect. Calling their words mean will convince no one. Do the work if you care so much.
It’s not a debate skill issue, it’s an education issue. What bad faith actors do when pretending to debate is just real-time trolling, they’re not interested in debate, and debating lends legitimacy to their idiocy. “Don’t feed the troll.” People need to educated enough that they themselves walk away from disingenuous debates and stop listening.
Watch “thank you for smoking” or read literally anything on persuasive argument. Exposing and publicizing these viewpoints does not make them less popular. Allowing the “alt-right” to have “free exchange in the marketplace of ideas” has only led to there being more Nazis or Nazi adjacent people now than there was before we did that. The “alt-right” isn’t even alt anymore, it’s the mainstream right-wing position.
People that think “oh well that’s only because we haven’t had the right argument” are completely ignorant of history. We didn’t defeat Hitler in “the marketplace of ideas”, and you won’t defeat Putin or Trump there either.
Have you considered that your Overton window has changed and everybody you think is Nazis and Nazi adjacent are just more right of your politics now than before? There hasn’t been a major shift in the public but internet politics has shifted drastically.
Yeah on second thought you’re right, Putin is actually a leftist, and it’s totally not Nazi-ish to call for white nationalism, rally saying “Jews will not replace us”, or try to overthrow the government because you don’t like election results. /s
PS: If this argument is an example of how you’re going to persuade Nazis or the general public in a debate with Nazis into not being Nazis, you’re even more deluded than you know.
You cherry pick the most extreme examples and then call everybody a Nazi. I wasn’t talking about Putin. I wasn’t talking about Trump. I was talking about everyday people. The vast majority of people which means the one that decide what politics win. Remember in a democracy the one with the most votes wins. All the extreme viewpoints that you point to are a minority of a minority.
The vast majority of people which means the one that decide what politics win. Remember in a democracy the one with the most votes wins. All the extreme viewpoints that you point to are a minority of a minority.
We aren’t in a democracy.
Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016.
The “minority of a minority” that you speak of that hold these viewpoints are the Republican candidates for POTUS in 2024. All except maybe Chris Christie are still holding the torch for Trump.
Once you’re under the boot of fascism, it won’t matter that the majority of people started out disagreeing with the fascists. They divide and conquer and rule using terror and violence. The numbers are meaningless if the numbers take no action against the threat. They’ll become spectators to mass violence or victims thereof.
The skill is debate and debunking. It should be fairly simple to show a serial lack of honesty and bullshit. If you can show that then it should be fairly simple to get people to stop listening and disconnect. Calling their words mean will convince no one. Do the work if you care so much.
It’s not a debate skill issue, it’s an education issue. What bad faith actors do when pretending to debate is just real-time trolling, they’re not interested in debate, and debating lends legitimacy to their idiocy. “Don’t feed the troll.” People need to educated enough that they themselves walk away from disingenuous debates and stop listening.
You sure like sticking up for nazis.
I don’t know what thread you’ve been reading but I’m sticking up for speech.
But you’re talking like debate will make the bigots stop.
Why would I claim the bigots would stop. I only claim that they would fail. They have the right to continue. They have the right to be wrong.
Watch “thank you for smoking” or read literally anything on persuasive argument. Exposing and publicizing these viewpoints does not make them less popular. Allowing the “alt-right” to have “free exchange in the marketplace of ideas” has only led to there being more Nazis or Nazi adjacent people now than there was before we did that. The “alt-right” isn’t even alt anymore, it’s the mainstream right-wing position.
People that think “oh well that’s only because we haven’t had the right argument” are completely ignorant of history. We didn’t defeat Hitler in “the marketplace of ideas”, and you won’t defeat Putin or Trump there either.
Have you considered that your Overton window has changed and everybody you think is Nazis and Nazi adjacent are just more right of your politics now than before? There hasn’t been a major shift in the public but internet politics has shifted drastically.
Yeah on second thought you’re right, Putin is actually a leftist, and it’s totally not Nazi-ish to call for white nationalism, rally saying “Jews will not replace us”, or try to overthrow the government because you don’t like election results. /s
PS: If this argument is an example of how you’re going to persuade Nazis or the general public in a debate with Nazis into not being Nazis, you’re even more deluded than you know.
You cherry pick the most extreme examples and then call everybody a Nazi. I wasn’t talking about Putin. I wasn’t talking about Trump. I was talking about everyday people. The vast majority of people which means the one that decide what politics win. Remember in a democracy the one with the most votes wins. All the extreme viewpoints that you point to are a minority of a minority.
We aren’t in a democracy.
Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016.
The “minority of a minority” that you speak of that hold these viewpoints are the Republican candidates for POTUS in 2024. All except maybe Chris Christie are still holding the torch for Trump.
Once you’re under the boot of fascism, it won’t matter that the majority of people started out disagreeing with the fascists. They divide and conquer and rule using terror and violence. The numbers are meaningless if the numbers take no action against the threat. They’ll become spectators to mass violence or victims thereof.
Refer to my previous comment about your political window shifting.