Pretty sure those users you’re talking about don’t understand desktop controls in general, and would be even worse on Linux. Because when we talk about tech savy we’re not talking about basic controls.
I don’t agree in a broad sense. Windows is much harder to use in some ways, like drivers are a mess compared to Linux (sans Nvidia). It’s harder to maintain over time, less robust, like immutable OSes are much more simple.
There are very few days I use windows and think “wow that was straightforward”. Maybe that’s just me though.
Nah, it’s not you. In their efforts to make Windows more dummy friendly, they’ve SOMEHOW managed to make it worse and keep it that way over several major versions.
We STILL have two different settings schemes in Windows, but don’t worry, they’re still ‘innovating’ with ads in the start menu!
Windows is actively regressing while Linux is only getting better.
Ironically, one of Windows’ biggest ‘innovations’ in years has been adding Linux to it with WSL…
Maybe but if you google (which most users use for their daily driver, even on IOS/Android) you get pointed to the manufacturers who have the driver installers as simple as possible. These also come with auto updaters.
I mean you could not use the tools the manufacturers are providing, but at that point I’d argue you’re trying to be a tech savy user when they offered a way not to.
And very, very, very few edge cases are more difficult than that. most are plug-n-play (which to be fair, Linux has as well)
If you try to google a result for Linux you get a bunch of results for distributions that might not be yours. if you try to google a result for your distro you might get a result from years ago that is strongly not recommended anymore (especially if it leads to that Ubuntutalks website). And then the absolute worst case scenario, where you google and don’t actually find what you’re looking for, because the manufacturer does nothing with Linux and nobody cares about the problem.
A lot of windows was made around things that non-savy users were breaking. Nowadays a lot of the major issues I see people talk about are because they tried to do something that was very clearly something that they didn’t want to be done.
I mean, if you’re biggest argument is, “they might Google the wrong distro”, then I think that really goes to show how few actual concerns there are against Linux.
Anyone who has to install the entire OS will know what distro they’re on. Hell, half of the distros come witha default background with the name on it…
I don’t understand how you consider Windows drivers to be a mess compared to Linux? Do you mean for power users who like to manually configure their own drivers? Windows 10 and 11 are just plug and play with any device I can think of that an average user would use.
I don’t use Windows as my daily driver, but I have done a lot of IT work for people who do use Windows, so maybe I’m missing something.
On Linux a user does nothing. The kernel contains all drivers. The few userspace drivers that exist are there by default like Mesa.
On Windows they are spread out between vendors. Sometimes Windows manages them, sometimes it grabs ancient versions. Then you have to maintain them with updates.
A lot of drivers are spyware, Nvidia’s tool even requires an account.
Yea, I see what you mean. I definitely prefer the way that linux handles drivers.
From my experience, not too many people have had driver issues with the newer versions of windows, but I could have just gotten lucky there. I find that most non tech savy people don’t care if they have the latest driver or if it contains spyware or any of that. Most of them don’t know what a driver is, so they just plug it in and if it works they don’t care how or why.
I try to educate when I can but some people really don’t care to learn. Thanks for your explanation, I totally understand your reasoning.
@AProfessional@TopRamenBinLaden kind of delusional. I worked on a town hall for years and faced all kinds of driver on Linux. From printers to network adapters.
Meh, I have been using linux desktop exclusively for a decade now, and I have to disagree. It… sorta works, but it has definitely many many shortcomings and edge cases where it just shits itself completely — that is, the userspace. The kernel itself is rock solid.
To be fair, my husband is about as far from tech savvy as they come, and he’s been running Linux for years on his laptop. Every 2-3 years I upgrade him. Sometimes just within distros (Ubuntu 12.04 to 16.04 say. Other times, I’ve moved him distros (to fedora) or back to Ubuntu. Otherwise? I don’t touch his system. He’s been happy for years.
A daily driver shouldn’t need you to be tech savy. There should just be an added benefit for being tech savy.
Windows is not usable if you aren’t tech savvy. See young people who grew up on iOS/Android.
I think Linux is very good already and only improving.
Pretty sure those users you’re talking about don’t understand desktop controls in general, and would be even worse on Linux. Because when we talk about tech savy we’re not talking about basic controls.
I don’t agree in a broad sense. Windows is much harder to use in some ways, like drivers are a mess compared to Linux (sans Nvidia). It’s harder to maintain over time, less robust, like immutable OSes are much more simple.
There are very few days I use windows and think “wow that was straightforward”. Maybe that’s just me though.
Nah, it’s not you. In their efforts to make Windows more dummy friendly, they’ve SOMEHOW managed to make it worse and keep it that way over several major versions.
We STILL have two different settings schemes in Windows, but don’t worry, they’re still ‘innovating’ with ads in the start menu!
Windows is actively regressing while Linux is only getting better.
Ironically, one of Windows’ biggest ‘innovations’ in years has been adding Linux to it with WSL…
Maybe but if you google (which most users use for their daily driver, even on IOS/Android) you get pointed to the manufacturers who have the driver installers as simple as possible. These also come with auto updaters.
I mean you could not use the tools the manufacturers are providing, but at that point I’d argue you’re trying to be a tech savy user when they offered a way not to.
And very, very, very few edge cases are more difficult than that. most are plug-n-play (which to be fair, Linux has as well)
If you try to google a result for Linux you get a bunch of results for distributions that might not be yours. if you try to google a result for your distro you might get a result from years ago that is strongly not recommended anymore (especially if it leads to that Ubuntutalks website). And then the absolute worst case scenario, where you google and don’t actually find what you’re looking for, because the manufacturer does nothing with Linux and nobody cares about the problem.
A lot of windows was made around things that non-savy users were breaking. Nowadays a lot of the major issues I see people talk about are because they tried to do something that was very clearly something that they didn’t want to be done.
You say this as if it’s good. On Linux you don’t install drivers, they are just included and work. (Except Nvidia…)
I mean, if you’re biggest argument is, “they might Google the wrong distro”, then I think that really goes to show how few actual concerns there are against Linux.
Anyone who has to install the entire OS will know what distro they’re on. Hell, half of the distros come witha default background with the name on it…
if you don’t think that’s an issue, you probably are in the tech-savy category
I meet people on a daily basis who can’t even say what browser they’re on.
Yes, but that sort of user is also immediately stumped when any program fails to update in any OS. Hell, they call others to connect printers.
I’m not sure it’s fair to judge linux by the standards of the least capable when they are equally stupid about any OS.
@AnonTwo
Ah yes, windows users googling drivers, that *never* caused them to accidentally download a virus, right?
@const_void @KpntAutismus @MotoAsh @AProfessional
I don’t understand how you consider Windows drivers to be a mess compared to Linux? Do you mean for power users who like to manually configure their own drivers? Windows 10 and 11 are just plug and play with any device I can think of that an average user would use.
I don’t use Windows as my daily driver, but I have done a lot of IT work for people who do use Windows, so maybe I’m missing something.
On Linux a user does nothing. The kernel contains all drivers. The few userspace drivers that exist are there by default like Mesa.
On Windows they are spread out between vendors. Sometimes Windows manages them, sometimes it grabs ancient versions. Then you have to maintain them with updates.
A lot of drivers are spyware, Nvidia’s tool even requires an account.
Yea, I see what you mean. I definitely prefer the way that linux handles drivers.
From my experience, not too many people have had driver issues with the newer versions of windows, but I could have just gotten lucky there. I find that most non tech savy people don’t care if they have the latest driver or if it contains spyware or any of that. Most of them don’t know what a driver is, so they just plug it in and if it works they don’t care how or why.
I try to educate when I can but some people really don’t care to learn. Thanks for your explanation, I totally understand your reasoning.
Modern Windows is much better than like the Vista and earlier days for sure.
Though now I find a lot of accessories want you to install their crappy, and very sketchy, app just to set an rgb color.
@AProfessional @TopRamenBinLaden kind of delusional. I worked on a town hall for years and faced all kinds of driver on Linux. From printers to network adapters.
Meh, I have been using linux desktop exclusively for a decade now, and I have to disagree. It… sorta works, but it has definitely many many shortcomings and edge cases where it just shits itself completely — that is, the userspace. The kernel itself is rock solid.
@kaba0 @AProfessional you quit?
Many distros are actually very easy to install and setup. The problem is that Linux is not preinstalled on most computers.
Now try to sign a PDF
Open the PDF in Okular, click Tools->Digitally Sign, select the certificate you want to sign it with, and save the signed PDF.
To be fair, my husband is about as far from tech savvy as they come, and he’s been running Linux for years on his laptop. Every 2-3 years I upgrade him. Sometimes just within distros (Ubuntu 12.04 to 16.04 say. Other times, I’ve moved him distros (to fedora) or back to Ubuntu. Otherwise? I don’t touch his system. He’s been happy for years.