Tensions flared in the House of Commons on Monday over opposition calls for House of Commons Speaker Anthony Rota to resign after apologizing to the House of Commons for inviting, recognizing and leading the chamber in a standing ovation for a man who fought for a Nazi unit during the Second World War.
I wonder what he did while in WW2 or does anyone care? Does the fact that he was in the SS just makes him a bad guy regardless of his actions? His Wikipedia says he fought Russians, it doesn’t say anything about exterminating Jews or anything else we know Hitler’s Nazi’s did.
It reminds me of Pope Benedict being a member of the Hitler youth. Some people were forced into that shit during a time of high propaganda and deception. Hitler was elected in a Democracy and fooled his own people to think they were being attacked so many normal regular Germans supported him. Are they all Nazi’s?? No.
The problem I see here stems from the fact that the parliament is supposed to represent all Canadians. Honouring a former member of the SS is inconsiderate to those who have suffered from Nazism as well as their descendants here in Canada. Maybe it’s appropriate to honour him in Ukraine as someone who contributed to Ukrainian independence because many there sees Nazism as a lesser evil than Soviet oppression. However I don’t think that’s good enough of a reason for it to be considered appropriate here in Canada.
It is inconsiderate without question. It’s a massive gaffe on our government’s part but it’s still not clear what wrong this guy did. Lots of Germans were fooled into thinking Germany was being attacked when it wasn’t. My best friend is German and his mother is insanely embarrassed by what happened and refuses to talk about it. It’s a huge source of guilt and shame for many Germans but most Germans at one point supported Hitler. That doesn’t make them bad people.
Our Government saw this as a slam dunk against Russia and it backfired in the worst way possible. Maybe our Government will learn from this and no longer invite anyone to the house of commons to avoid any more future gaffes?
What this guy did is irrelevant to the question whether he should be honoured in parliament due to his past as a member of the SS. Because he was not found guilty of war crimes that’s why he’s allowed to live peacefully here in Canada till this day. However, to be honoured in the parliament there has to be evidence of him done overwhelming good. Not committing war crimes as a former Nazi does not meet that threshold for him to be there.
You don’t need to convince me that not all members of the Nazi party are necessarily evil, I never said they are and I don’t care. The question at hand here is whether the individual should be honoured by Canada as a nation.
You don’t know much if you think there were innocent SS troops.
You don’t know much if you think that’s the only bad thing SS troops did.
You don’t know much if you think the SS is comparable to the youth group.
You sure are coming off as very judgmental.
No one knows what this guy did during WWII but you’re all so quick to assume because he was SS he most certainly did something bad. That’s lazy thinking and if you had any shame, you’d be embarrassed by your words
Like Oskar Schindler, he too was a Nazi but he saved lots of Jews and Jews love him for it. I’ve not heard 1 Jew call Oskar a Nazi but this entire thread is acting like just being SS means you’re the worst person in the world, without any merit.
We sure live in a fucked up place where merit doesn’t matter and the opinion of people who admittedly know nothing and are just assuming from nothing.
I also didn’t say Hitler Youth and the SS were comparable. You clearly don’t know how to read if someone is making a comparison or not so you come off as uneducated and ignorant.
For someone who told me I don’t know much, it’s clear as day that you don’t know much.
Because I am being judgemental. That wasn’t supposed to be subtext. I’m literally telling you’re being ignorant, but now you’re signalling that you’re not being ignorant, you’re being an apologist for the most Nazified troops.
This reads like you’re either completely and utterly ignorant of who the SS were, or you’re a Nazi apologist. It’s telling you think there’s more shame to be had about assuming an SS member acted like an SS member than you are that you’re trying to suggest it’s possible that there were good SS members.
You already tried to argue about people having to go along with the flow of an authoritarian country, and now you’re reversed course to try to justify “Not all Nazis” while using one of the biggest examples of a secret anti-Nazi. Nazis don’t save Jewish people en masse and sabotage Nazi arms, and it’s fucking insane that you’re suggesting that. If any argument here deserves shame, it’s this one.
Explain how this doesn’t apply to you.
Then why did you make the direct comparison in your rhetoric? You literally said it reminded you. Do you actually have that little clue about what you were saying?
This statement would mean a hell of a lot more if your contention with my statements wasn’t just doubling down on your already ignorant statements, accidentally revealing you didn’t even know how you were speaking, and making some absolutely inane new comments that show even less of an understanding than before.
You saying I know less is probably a good thing because your idea of how all this played out is pure fiction and fantasy.
Would he get an ovation in the Bundestag? No? So he shouldn’t get one on Parliament Hill.
Nazis bad, folks. Not that hard.
I mean there is slightly more to it than just that. Oskar Schindler was a Nazi, is he bad?
Again, simple test: would Schindler be given an ovation in the Bundestag? Or the Knesset? Yes he would, Oskar Schindler is a Righteous Among the Nations. He proved spectacularly that he was “no true Scotchman”. An extraordinary exception doesn’t nullify the basic rule “nazi bad”.
Basically, the same old rule that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
I mean that’s kinda the point the guy you originally replied to was making. From the limited info I’ve seen about this guy I know nothing about him, which isn’t enough for me to dismiss him as a shitty person with just “Nazi bad”. Certainly a good starting point tho lol
Schindler was extraordinary. Extraordinary means out of the ordinary. Meaning a notion of an ordinary exists. The ordinary is nazi bad. A good position to adopt as a default.
It’s exactly the point I was making but people here are so quick to make a judgement on little or no information.
Oskar Schindler was a Nazi. Pope Benedict was a Nazi. Neither are considered bad people but let’s just assume everyone else is?
Yes. Are you a nazi apologist or extremely ignorant?
Likening the SS to the Hitler Youth is fucking ridiculous. So again, nazi apologist or extremely ignorant?
Edit: spelling
https://web.archive.org/web/20090814153200/http://www.infoukes.com/galiciadivision/deschenes/
More info on why Canada does not see this guy as a Nazi can be found here. Basically they were nazis, but there was no proof of any war crimes. (?)
The Commission accordingly FINDS that:
56- The Galicia Division ( 14. Waffengrenadierdivision der SS [gal. #1]) should not be indicted as a group. 57- The members of Galicia Division were individually screened for security purposes before admission to Canada. 58- Charges of war crimes of Galicia Division have never been substantiated, either in 1950 when they were first preferred, or in 1984 when they were renewed, or before this Commission. 59- Further, in the absence of evidence of participation or knowledge of specific war crimes, mere membership in the Galicia Division is insufficient to justify prosecution. 60- No case can be made against members of Galicia Division for revocation of citizenship or deportation since the Canadian authorities were fully aware of the relevant facts in 1950 and admission to Canada was not granted them because of any false representation, or fraud, or concealment of material circumstances. 61- In any event, of the 217 officers of the Galicia Division denounced by Mr. Simon Wiesenthal to the Canadian government, 187 (i.e., 86 percent never set foot in Canada, 11 have died in Canada, 2 have left for another country, no prima facie case has been established against 16 and the last one could not be located