Why? Do you also want to be paid for taking products off the shelves or choosing the good vegetables?
This is just how the place works and you are not entitled to anything just because it does things a certain way. You can keep going to the regular cashier lane if you don’t like “doing work for the company”.
Now that you mention it, yes. But that ship sailed a long time ago.
The self-service registers are new and we should consider how they are used now. I do go to the regular cashier lane. I’d be happy to ring myself out for the cost of doing so.
If you’re actually in Tokyo - tbh this isn’t anything new most other places, I’ve been using self-checkouts for like 15 years, and I don’t really see much of a reason to have someone do a job that isn’t really necessary and just makes me feel awkward, standing there while someone basically does a robot job. But honestly in Japan it makes a ton of sense to try to introduce self checkouts. Part-time staff are incredibly overworked, there’s much fewer part-time workers available compared to demand, and most people who have worked a part-time job in Japan can attest that it’s incredibly easy to find a job that doesn’t pay very much and isn’t very fulfilling. It’s quite a different situation from full-time jobs, which are incredibly hard to find and still overwork you doing meaningless work.
Is it just that as a paying customer, you don’t feel that you should any of your own effort to that service? Because if so, that’s practically impossible, and maybe not even desirable. The best kind of working environment is one in which workers, customers, and employers all empathize with each other and do their best to make things easier. And as an example of something that customers are sometimes expected to do, there are a lot of cheap self-service restaurants in Japan like soba shops and such where you bring the tray to your table on your own and then clean up after yourself and bring it back to the tray return area. This isn’t common in all parts of the world, and someone who isn’t used to it might protest and say that they’re paying the wages of the people who work there, so why should they have to serve themselves? But it’s just part of the system there and it cuts down on the workload - you would be rude to not respect that.
If you think businesses are just pocketing the difference and it’s leading to greater profits, the only real way to address that is to either encourage greater competition and for example break up monopolies, or implement price controls. But it doesn’t make sense to employ people to do something when labour can be used more efficiently on something else.
I do not have any problem with automation and see it as absolutely essential (along with more open immigration) to Japan’s future. I do not have any problem bussing my table in an establishment where that is the norm and has been for decades.
I do feel, however, that it is important for business owners to continue pay something for automation that replaces workers. This is hardly a new idea. Or a popular one. But it is what I believe is right.
I don’t mind if they want to pay me for doing the job of a cashier (this would probably just be a small reduction to price similar to the reduction in price for transportation if you use an IC card or app and in contrast to how asking for a plastic bag results in a small addition to price) though I think the best way to handle this is for owners to pay fees to the government just as they would have if humans were doing the jobs. Just as I think those who own robotic assembly lines should.
What do you think about the argument that it keeps costs down when things are generally getting more expensive? In effect, you might actually still be benefiting from lower prices without ever knowing it.
I don’t know that I always buy this, but I can see the logic of it and I think it may be true sometimes, especially if things are competitive enough that being able to keep your prices down is more beneficial to business than putting the savings straight into profits.
Otherwise I think probably rather than customers seeing direct benefits from lower prices, an attempt to capture more of the excess profits of automation with taxation is needed.
I’d really prefer the taxation method, but I don’t think that’s likely in most countries at the moment. Perhaps at a city level…?
While it certainly is possible that prices are lower than they would have been, I am skeptical. I know some business owners and have not heard this from them. I’d love some solid evidence to point to.
The only place I’ve ever seen this in Canada is at some private liquor stores. They have a tip prompt. I guess in theory someone could help you to decide what you want and make recommendations, but in practice how much does that happen and how much is it really worth? I think it feels like just shaming your customers for not paying your own employees’ wages, tbh.
And self checkout been prevalent for at least 20 years. Suddenly pretending like this is some radical shift is about as sensible as being upset that the grocer isn’t getting your eggs for you, or that the milkman doesn’t deliver anymore.
I do feel like I ought to be paid when a business offloads their work onto me. Not much, I suppose. But something.
You do get paid something, freedom from bullshit small talk and judgment of your purchases
I do not experience bullshit small talk or judgement of my purchases. Since I’m not getting that benefit, I’m happy to be paid. Thanks!
Why? Do you also want to be paid for taking products off the shelves or choosing the good vegetables?
This is just how the place works and you are not entitled to anything just because it does things a certain way. You can keep going to the regular cashier lane if you don’t like “doing work for the company”.
Now that you mention it, yes. But that ship sailed a long time ago.
The self-service registers are new and we should consider how they are used now. I do go to the regular cashier lane. I’d be happy to ring myself out for the cost of doing so.
If you’re actually in Tokyo - tbh this isn’t anything new most other places, I’ve been using self-checkouts for like 15 years, and I don’t really see much of a reason to have someone do a job that isn’t really necessary and just makes me feel awkward, standing there while someone basically does a robot job. But honestly in Japan it makes a ton of sense to try to introduce self checkouts. Part-time staff are incredibly overworked, there’s much fewer part-time workers available compared to demand, and most people who have worked a part-time job in Japan can attest that it’s incredibly easy to find a job that doesn’t pay very much and isn’t very fulfilling. It’s quite a different situation from full-time jobs, which are incredibly hard to find and still overwork you doing meaningless work.
Is it just that as a paying customer, you don’t feel that you should any of your own effort to that service? Because if so, that’s practically impossible, and maybe not even desirable. The best kind of working environment is one in which workers, customers, and employers all empathize with each other and do their best to make things easier. And as an example of something that customers are sometimes expected to do, there are a lot of cheap self-service restaurants in Japan like soba shops and such where you bring the tray to your table on your own and then clean up after yourself and bring it back to the tray return area. This isn’t common in all parts of the world, and someone who isn’t used to it might protest and say that they’re paying the wages of the people who work there, so why should they have to serve themselves? But it’s just part of the system there and it cuts down on the workload - you would be rude to not respect that.
If you think businesses are just pocketing the difference and it’s leading to greater profits, the only real way to address that is to either encourage greater competition and for example break up monopolies, or implement price controls. But it doesn’t make sense to employ people to do something when labour can be used more efficiently on something else.
I do live in Tokyo and you do make good points.
I do not have any problem with automation and see it as absolutely essential (along with more open immigration) to Japan’s future. I do not have any problem bussing my table in an establishment where that is the norm and has been for decades.
I do feel, however, that it is important for business owners to continue pay something for automation that replaces workers. This is hardly a new idea. Or a popular one. But it is what I believe is right.
I don’t mind if they want to pay me for doing the job of a cashier (this would probably just be a small reduction to price similar to the reduction in price for transportation if you use an IC card or app and in contrast to how asking for a plastic bag results in a small addition to price) though I think the best way to handle this is for owners to pay fees to the government just as they would have if humans were doing the jobs. Just as I think those who own robotic assembly lines should.
What do you think about the argument that it keeps costs down when things are generally getting more expensive? In effect, you might actually still be benefiting from lower prices without ever knowing it.
I don’t know that I always buy this, but I can see the logic of it and I think it may be true sometimes, especially if things are competitive enough that being able to keep your prices down is more beneficial to business than putting the savings straight into profits.
Otherwise I think probably rather than customers seeing direct benefits from lower prices, an attempt to capture more of the excess profits of automation with taxation is needed.
I’d really prefer the taxation method, but I don’t think that’s likely in most countries at the moment. Perhaps at a city level…?
While it certainly is possible that prices are lower than they would have been, I am skeptical. I know some business owners and have not heard this from them. I’d love some solid evidence to point to.
At $15 per hour, how long does it take to ring up a half dozen items then swipe a card? It’s like 30 cents worth of wage!
Sounds good. Please cut 30 cents off my bill.
I would gladly! (If I were the manager)
You get to tip a smaller amount to the self checkout kiosk
Wtf y’all tip cashiers???
The only place I’ve ever seen this in Canada is at some private liquor stores. They have a tip prompt. I guess in theory someone could help you to decide what you want and make recommendations, but in practice how much does that happen and how much is it really worth? I think it feels like just shaming your customers for not paying your own employees’ wages, tbh.
No tipping where I live so I don’t benefit from that. Happy to accept a lower charge for my groceries in lieu of pay, though.
That you tip cashiers is already bonkers.
But that you guys tip at a self-checkout really takes the cake.
“Thank you computer for doing the job you were programmed to do, here is a tip, don’t spend it all at once!”
Theoretically, the money the supermarket saves not having to hire cashiers will be passed on to the consumer through lower prices. In practice though…
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Just so.
That’s what I’ve been saying, since they started making me walk around the store and find stuff for myself, or actually leave my house to go get it.
Self service shopping has been around in the US since 1916, so I imagine you must be pretty old. Glad to know I’ve got you on my side!
And self checkout been prevalent for at least 20 years. Suddenly pretending like this is some radical shift is about as sensible as being upset that the grocer isn’t getting your eggs for you, or that the milkman doesn’t deliver anymore.
You conceive of time in an interesting way. Certainly not the way I do.