I know that if you are a US citizen in France a lot of bank will refuse to open a bank account for you.
It’s due to the fact that they need to report to the IRS the banking informations of all US citizen and they just don’t want to spend any money on that.
Plus even if you are not taxed you still have to declare to the IRS your revenues every year.
Some people are US citizen without every putting a feet in the US, I totally understand that they would want to renounce their citizenship.
The rich have other ways to avoid paying tax. Hell, arguably the US is a tax haven for the rich, compared to many many countries. IRC Trump paid no tax 10/15 years due to reported losses. I suspect this was plain old tax avoidance. People like Bezos, Musk or Buffet pay almost nothing.
For example, when I worked at a European bank, we would often refuse US citizens anything but the basics. The IRS and US government is notoriously over-zealous and the US is one the few countries which applies double taxation. Many banks therefore avoid American passport holders like the plague. There are stories of people having their bank accounts summararily closed or frozen:
Often these were people who hadn’t been in the US since childhood or at all, earned and paid (up to 10x higher) taxes in Europe than they ever would in the US, but still got fucked over by the IRS and a country they would never visit (again). The US is one of the only countries in the world that does double taxation.
These weren’t rich people. Almost all of them were middle-class. Plenty were unemployed or earning less than 20k a year.
For middle-class people, it’s especially problematic come pension time, when time came for the payout of a European pension plan or the sale of the family home. Stuff they’d already paid tax on to the country they’d lived in most of their lives, but are forced to give America ‘its share’ despite getting less than nothing in return.
Plenty of them are also unable to vote in the US, because they never had a last residence, voting is a state matter, and it’s made needlessly complicated for foreign residents. Taxation without representation.
Thereby handily ignoring the rest of my comment, because you’d prefer to think of anyone who wants to renounce citizenship as a rich tax evader, rather than admit that there are plenty of reasons why someone might not want to have American citizenship, because shockhorror not everyone wants to be American, live in the US, or loves the US. Especially if they’ve never lived there or visited.
Imagine having been born in Italy during a long holiday, and for the rest of your life being forced to fill in Italian tax forms, despite working a minimum wage job and having no idea how the Italian system works and barely speaking the language. And when you try to get a loan from a American bank, they say no, because they’d have to file relevant paperwork with the Italian equivalent of the IRS.
In that example it would cost $0 to renounce citizenship…
I don’t think repeating it again is going to help you bro, either read the link or just accept you don’t get it. I do t need constant updates that you still don’t understand
Imagine a scenario where you gained Italian citizenship through an accident of birth. Your parents were on holiday, your mother went into labour a bit earlier than expected.
Is the only reason you wouldn’t want to be Italian that you want to avoid paying tax there?
By some calculations, there may be as many as 30,000 people among the estimated 5 million to 9 million US citizens living abroad who would like to begin the renunciation process but can’t.
…
Marie Sock, the first woman to stand as a presidential candidate in the Gambia, was forced to pull out of the race recently after she failed to get any response to her request to renounce her US nationality from the US embassy.
…
He became disillusioned when he learned that because his son was born outside the US he would not be eligible for US citizenship, and yet because of James’s citizenship he would treated as if he were a US taxpayer. That struck him as a modern form of taxation without representation. For the past year he has been trying to get through to an official who will help him renounce his citizenship, without success. “I never asked for US citizenship, and now I’m not even allowed to give it up.”
Your article is talking about specific delays during COVID because stuff was shut down because of COVID…
Which, since you didn’t know, fucked up a lot of shit.
For almost two years, since the pandemic struck in March 2020, most US consular missions around the world have suspended their expatriation services for those wishing to give up US citizenship. The US embassy in London, the largest of its sort in western Europe, announces on its website that it is “currently unable to accept appointments for loss of nationality applications” and is unable to say when services will resume.
The US state department says giving up citizenship requires a face-to-face interview with a government official, and that it is too risky given coronavirus.
If that COVID denying trump supporter would have done it at some point of the decade abroad before a worldwide pandemic, it would have been easy. Everyone is that article is talking about how COVID affected it, not how it normally is.
But here’s the fun part, you still have to file a tax return every year! Even if you’re well under the threshold! And trying to find someone living abroad who is versed in American expatriate tax law is expensive! And I can’t afford it!!
I am hiding from the IRS and have been for 16+ years.
Getting pretty deep in the weeds so I may be wrong.
But I believe in that case it’s not a voluntary renouncement, so it may be treated differently.
But still, you gotta be pretty wealthy to owe any money. And with the state of America, the vast amount of Americans are more deserving of sympathy and they’re the ones we should be focusing on helping.
They just don’t have the money for lawyers, PR campaigns, political donations, or the contacts of journalists as the wealthy people do.
The only people renouncing US citizenship are rich people because the US will still tax them.
The payment to renounce it is like a one time fee to not be taxed
I know that if you are a US citizen in France a lot of bank will refuse to open a bank account for you.
It’s due to the fact that they need to report to the IRS the banking informations of all US citizen and they just don’t want to spend any money on that.
Plus even if you are not taxed you still have to declare to the IRS your revenues every year.
Some people are US citizen without every putting a feet in the US, I totally understand that they would want to renounce their citizenship.
Not true.
The rich have other ways to avoid paying tax. Hell, arguably the US is a tax haven for the rich, compared to many many countries. IRC Trump paid no tax 10/15 years due to reported losses. I suspect this was plain old tax avoidance. People like Bezos, Musk or Buffet pay almost nothing.
For example, when I worked at a European bank, we would often refuse US citizens anything but the basics. The IRS and US government is notoriously over-zealous and the US is one the few countries which applies double taxation. Many banks therefore avoid American passport holders like the plague. There are stories of people having their bank accounts summararily closed or frozen:
https://www.thelocal.de/20210914/why-are-americans-being-turned-away-from-german-banks
Often these were people who hadn’t been in the US since childhood or at all, earned and paid (up to 10x higher) taxes in Europe than they ever would in the US, but still got fucked over by the IRS and a country they would never visit (again). The US is one of the only countries in the world that does double taxation.
These weren’t rich people. Almost all of them were middle-class. Plenty were unemployed or earning less than 20k a year.
For middle-class people, it’s especially problematic come pension time, when time came for the payout of a European pension plan or the sale of the family home. Stuff they’d already paid tax on to the country they’d lived in most of their lives, but are forced to give America ‘its share’ despite getting less than nothing in return.
Plenty of them are also unable to vote in the US, because they never had a last residence, voting is a state matter, and it’s made needlessly complicated for foreign residents. Taxation without representation.
I’ll go with the IRS over you bud…
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expatriation-tax
Unless you have more than $2,000,000 in assets or averaged more than $170,000 for five years, you don’t pay the tax.
Thereby handily ignoring the rest of my comment, because you’d prefer to think of anyone who wants to renounce citizenship as a rich tax evader, rather than admit that there are plenty of reasons why someone might not want to have American citizenship, because shock horror not everyone wants to be American, live in the US, or loves the US. Especially if they’ve never lived there or visited.
Imagine having been born in Italy during a long holiday, and for the rest of your life being forced to fill in Italian tax forms, despite working a minimum wage job and having no idea how the Italian system works and barely speaking the language. And when you try to get a loan from a American bank, they say no, because they’d have to file relevant paperwork with the Italian equivalent of the IRS.
In that example it would cost $0 to renounce citizenship…
I don’t think repeating it again is going to help you bro, either read the link or just accept you don’t get it. I do t need constant updates that you still don’t understand
Imagine a scenario where you gained Italian citizenship through an accident of birth. Your parents were on holiday, your mother went into labour a bit earlier than expected.
Is the only reason you wouldn’t want to be Italian that you want to avoid paying tax there?
If they wait till after they make six figures and get taxed…
Yeah, that’s a safe assumption. If it wasn’t taxes, they’d have done it sooner, it’s not like people jump straight into six figures buddy
The Guardian:
…
…
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/31/americans-seeking-renounce-citizenship-stuck
Your article is talking about specific delays during COVID because stuff was shut down because of COVID…
Which, since you didn’t know, fucked up a lot of shit.
If that COVID denying trump supporter would have done it at some point of the decade abroad before a worldwide pandemic, it would have been easy. Everyone is that article is talking about how COVID affected it, not how it normally is.
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And I linked you the IRS website talking about how wealthy you need to be for you to pay it…
I honestly don’t know how you’re not getting this…
It can’t be that I’m not explaining it well enough, because the link isn’t making sense to you either
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expatriation-tax
I’m sorry, I can’t help you. Try someone else.
But here’s the fun part, you still have to file a tax return every year! Even if you’re well under the threshold! And trying to find someone living abroad who is versed in American expatriate tax law is expensive! And I can’t afford it!!
I am hiding from the IRS and have been for 16+ years.
That’s probably most of them- but there’s other situations as well. Some countries require you renounce other citizenships to gain theirs.
Getting pretty deep in the weeds so I may be wrong.
But I believe in that case it’s not a voluntary renouncement, so it may be treated differently.
But still, you gotta be pretty wealthy to owe any money. And with the state of America, the vast amount of Americans are more deserving of sympathy and they’re the ones we should be focusing on helping.
They just don’t have the money for lawyers, PR campaigns, political donations, or the contacts of journalists as the wealthy people do.