Hey now, off-topic criticisms aren’t bad faith, they’re just bad humor, but I see how that might be misconstrued. I’m not trying to discredit your argument by changing the subject though, so I apologize for that
I think you make some good points about the availability of bike lanes, but I disagree that limiting the speed only where bike lanes are unavailable is a suitable middle ground. I don’t think scooters should be allowed on sidewalks PERIOD. Anywhere I say bike lane, assume “street” if your setting doesn’t have one. And the problem I see is that limiting their speed makes the sidewalk look more appealing than the street, which is my main concern. Scooters should not be available for rental in areas with only bike lanes and fast roads, since there’s not really a good speed to limit them where they’re both useful as a means of transportation and safe for nearby pedestrians. As for the privately owned scooters, increasing the penalties associated with their misuse and promoting public awareness of those penalties will do far more to keep them off sidewalks than to hope the manufacturers implement the proper GPS speed limits and anti-tamper systems.
I’m sorry a drunk scooter driver injured you and I agree that drunk scooter use should be prohibited by some means, but I don’t know how you could attach a breathalyzer to a publicly used vehicle and expect people to put their mouths on it to blow. Drunkenness is a huge problem and our culture around alcohol is a major factor in allowing it to do as much harm as it does.
I think you and I generally agree that scooters are good, and generally agree there is room for improvement in their deployment.
I think we generally believe the speeds in which they operate should be appropriate for their contexts.
I’m pretty sure where our divides are, is just “what are the contexts”, and “is prescriptive law enough?”
I don’t think prescriptive law is enough.we can post speed limits, but they are broken. We can paint bike lane lines, and cars veer into them. Physical barriers are what keep cars out of bike lanes, not paint. GPS governors could keep motor vehicles driving the speed limits, not signs. Throwing violators in jail might be “justice”, but that doesn’t bring back the kid who was mowed down.
I also, despite having been smoked my scooter riders, don’t NEED the sidewalks to be forbidden. If a scooter rider CHOOSES to use the sidewalk, I’m fine with that, AS LONG as they operate the scooter in a way appropriate for the context, and that does mean at a lower speed than on the road or bike lane. You’re right, that if we just plain forbid their operation on the sidewalks then my concerns about pedestrians evaporate entirely, but I still think that’s heavy handed.
Anyways, if there exists technology for a Tesla can more or less drive itself, I’m sure a scooter can know if it’s on a sidewalk. In your world, it could maybe stop and force the rider to dismount because they’re prohibited from that space, but I’m fine with it just being like “since you’re on the sidewalk we’re speed limiting you to 8mph”
I think you’re right. I just hate it when bandaid solutions for failures of infrastructure are left as “good enough” when they should be treated as a way to buy time while long-term solutions like divided bike lanes, narrower roads with more speed tables, and public transit upgrades. The actual solutions are ignored when the bandaid solutions aren’t themselves criticized, and without actual investment in public infrastructure we’re never going to make our walkways actually totally safe.
Hey now, off-topic criticisms aren’t bad faith, they’re just bad humor, but I see how that might be misconstrued. I’m not trying to discredit your argument by changing the subject though, so I apologize for that
I think you make some good points about the availability of bike lanes, but I disagree that limiting the speed only where bike lanes are unavailable is a suitable middle ground. I don’t think scooters should be allowed on sidewalks PERIOD. Anywhere I say bike lane, assume “street” if your setting doesn’t have one. And the problem I see is that limiting their speed makes the sidewalk look more appealing than the street, which is my main concern. Scooters should not be available for rental in areas with only bike lanes and fast roads, since there’s not really a good speed to limit them where they’re both useful as a means of transportation and safe for nearby pedestrians. As for the privately owned scooters, increasing the penalties associated with their misuse and promoting public awareness of those penalties will do far more to keep them off sidewalks than to hope the manufacturers implement the proper GPS speed limits and anti-tamper systems.
I’m sorry a drunk scooter driver injured you and I agree that drunk scooter use should be prohibited by some means, but I don’t know how you could attach a breathalyzer to a publicly used vehicle and expect people to put their mouths on it to blow. Drunkenness is a huge problem and our culture around alcohol is a major factor in allowing it to do as much harm as it does.
I think you and I generally agree that scooters are good, and generally agree there is room for improvement in their deployment.
I think we generally believe the speeds in which they operate should be appropriate for their contexts.
I’m pretty sure where our divides are, is just “what are the contexts”, and “is prescriptive law enough?”
I don’t think prescriptive law is enough.we can post speed limits, but they are broken. We can paint bike lane lines, and cars veer into them. Physical barriers are what keep cars out of bike lanes, not paint. GPS governors could keep motor vehicles driving the speed limits, not signs. Throwing violators in jail might be “justice”, but that doesn’t bring back the kid who was mowed down.
I also, despite having been smoked my scooter riders, don’t NEED the sidewalks to be forbidden. If a scooter rider CHOOSES to use the sidewalk, I’m fine with that, AS LONG as they operate the scooter in a way appropriate for the context, and that does mean at a lower speed than on the road or bike lane. You’re right, that if we just plain forbid their operation on the sidewalks then my concerns about pedestrians evaporate entirely, but I still think that’s heavy handed.
Anyways, if there exists technology for a Tesla can more or less drive itself, I’m sure a scooter can know if it’s on a sidewalk. In your world, it could maybe stop and force the rider to dismount because they’re prohibited from that space, but I’m fine with it just being like “since you’re on the sidewalk we’re speed limiting you to 8mph”
I think you’re right. I just hate it when bandaid solutions for failures of infrastructure are left as “good enough” when they should be treated as a way to buy time while long-term solutions like divided bike lanes, narrower roads with more speed tables, and public transit upgrades. The actual solutions are ignored when the bandaid solutions aren’t themselves criticized, and without actual investment in public infrastructure we’re never going to make our walkways actually totally safe.