Israel on Saturday described as "propaganda" a claim by Hamas that the militant group had wanted to release two more hostages on humanitarian grounds but that Israel declined to receive them.
Why does Hamas need Israel’s agreement to release hostages? Can’t they release them to the Egyptian border guards at Rafah border crossing in the South?
Even if they can’t release them to Egypt, they could put them at the border, and tell the news agencies hey these are hostages being released, and put a live video feed on them standing at the border. I promise you Egypt would not leave them standing there indefinitely. The media coverage alone would get them to at least take the hostages over the border.
Hell, they could take them to a UN compound and release them into the custody of the UN.
From what I understand they released two hostages via the Red Cross and things went fine. I think Hamas willing to return hostages is a good thing. Why won’t Israel take them up on it despite them already releasing two? Most likely imo because Israel’s long term goals include genocide and their handling of the hostage situation so far has been shit.
I think the balance of probability is demonstrates that’s Hamas is lying here. If they wanted to release two hostages, with no strings attached, they could simply drop them off at the Red Cross, the UN, or at the Egyptian border. To claim that they need Israelis agreement, and support to release a hostage is extremely disingenuous.
Honestly, it sounds like they’re just trying to get a sound bite for propaganda purposes. It doesn’t matter that it’s obviously a lie, the people who can see it’s a lie aren’t the ones the propaganda’s for.
. If they wanted to release two hostages, with no strings attached, they could simply drop them off at the Red Cross, the UN, or at the Egyptian border.
They did drop two hostages to the Red Cross just 2 days ago.
Internally, Netanyahu can’t afford to reject any semi reasonable offer. He also wants to be able to say he did anything positive.
He’ll hopefully be crucified no matter what, but in his eyes nothing is his fault and he’s working hard at getting points for any achievement and blaming everything and anyone in the past millenia.
you make everything look simple. I’m slightly fascinated. then I get back into reality and I remember there’s a cruel, blind war, and huge interests and plans going far over the borders of Isreal and Gaza.
the spiraling hate between parts? ah! silly them! “why they don’t just…”
How are they not lying? If they want to release two hostages they have a variety of options that don’t involve Israel. They could drop them off at the Egyptian border, they could drop them off at the Red Cross, they could drop them off at any of the UN compounds.
They’re unwillingness to release two hostages is completely on them. For them to try to blame Israel is disingenuous, and clearly a lie.
But I’m open to being wrong, how is Hamas prevented from releasing two hostages right now? What prevents them from dropping them off at the Red Cross or any of the UN compounds right now today?
That site blocks my country. So I can’t read the article.
But yes everything in Gaza has danger. But they could publicize the fact that they’re dropping off at the Red Cross, post a video, live stream it, whatever. It would show the willing and it’s not dependent on Israel
That site blocks my country. So I can’t read the article.
Here’s the first 2 sentences.
The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) confirmed Wednesday that five staffers were killed in armed hostilities in Israel and the Gaza Strip.
“Today, in two different incidents, ambulances were hit killing four Palestine Red Crescent paramedics who were helping those in need,” IFRC said in a statement.
I understand it’s not the whole article but please try to extrapolate with the information given
Edit: Or like… you could def read enough from that URL that you could google it yourself if you actually cared…
Yes. I agree. It’s a war crime. It’s terrible. But it has nothing to do with Hamas releasing hostages. They could release them to the UN, or the Red Cross. The incumbent danger of the war zone doesn’t change. They could get the credit for releasing the hostages even if a bombing later destroys the Red Cross building.
I think that trying to rationalize the behavior of two xenophobic, nationalist, religious fundamentalist far right parties it’s just a sterile exercise, often practiced (can’t rightly say if that’s your will, too) to leave out of the discourse one of these two parties, to implicitly side with one of them. that’s all I have to say. have a good day
I asked you this already, don’t be dishonest, with what internet? With what electricity?
Tell the press they’re there
What press my guy? They kicked aljazera out and bombed the AP building a few years ago with no evidence given. They’ve killed 23 journalists since the beginning of the month
There are reporters for Al Jazeera and other organizations in the Gaza strip. Charging a cell phone, using satellite internet, all things available to a government.
And if not the government, the UN in Red Cross have communication capabilities.
Israel kicked Al Jazeera out of there Israeli offices, Al Jazeera still has reporters in the Gaza strip, you just have to go to their web page and see their daily reports
Israel’s killing a lot of journalists it’s true, and there are journalists there because it’s important, there are journalists there because their Palestinian they can’t leave. Media is still getting out
But let’s take your point to its logical conclusion, how could Hamas tell us that they’re unable to release hostages if they don’t have access to the internet?
There are reporters for Al Jazeera and other organizations in the Gaza strip.
Yes, I didn’t say they revoked the journalists citizenship. Israel bombed the AP building 2 years ago. Israel has bombed a bunch of hospitals and ambulances. Israel is killing humanitarian aid.
And if not the government, the UN in Red Cross have communication capabilities.
The UN wasn’t able to get in for like 3 days after a ceasefire on the border was negotiated. These are not realistic suggestions.
But let’s take your point to its logical conclusion, how could Hamas tell us that they’re unable to release hostages if they don’t have access to the internet?
You only need wired electricity to (record a video and) tell us they’re unable to release hostages. Showing a livestream of them releasing hostages requires mobile internet+electricity and requires at least one additional point of internet+(wired) electricity (the tower to broadcast the phone signal).
If you can admit that then I can admit that dropping them off with the Red Cross and taking photos of the release and airdropping them to like 20 homies (or like 2 journalists) should provide enough evidence to be recovered in case of disaster.
But with how quickly disinformation is spread, with the asymmetric technical capabilities, with the fact that 2 hostages were just released safely with no issue, I don’t blame Hamas for trying to do this as safely as possible.
Why does Hamas need Israel’s agreement to release hostages? Can’t they release them to the Egyptian border guards at Rafah border crossing in the South?
Even if they can’t release them to Egypt, they could put them at the border, and tell the news agencies hey these are hostages being released, and put a live video feed on them standing at the border. I promise you Egypt would not leave them standing there indefinitely. The media coverage alone would get them to at least take the hostages over the border.
Hell, they could take them to a UN compound and release them into the custody of the UN.
Because that way they won’t be able to extort goods and services for the hostages … so sad seeing good hostage wasted…
In this press release Hamas said they tried to release more prisoners but Israeli wouldn’t accept them.
If Hamas is being genuine, there shouldn’t be any tit for tat on a humanitarian hostage release.
I’m just trying to demonstrate how The Hamas statement feels demonstrably disingenuous. Because they have other options.
Hamas is not a good actor, the plight of the people in the Gaza strip does not helped by Hamas being such a bad actor.
From what I understand they released two hostages via the Red Cross and things went fine. I think Hamas willing to return hostages is a good thing. Why won’t Israel take them up on it despite them already releasing two? Most likely imo because Israel’s long term goals include genocide and their handling of the hostage situation so far has been shit.
I think the balance of probability is demonstrates that’s Hamas is lying here. If they wanted to release two hostages, with no strings attached, they could simply drop them off at the Red Cross, the UN, or at the Egyptian border. To claim that they need Israelis agreement, and support to release a hostage is extremely disingenuous.
Honestly, it sounds like they’re just trying to get a sound bite for propaganda purposes. It doesn’t matter that it’s obviously a lie, the people who can see it’s a lie aren’t the ones the propaganda’s for.
They did drop two hostages to the Red Cross just 2 days ago.
Great. Why can’t they do that again? Why press release that Israel is preventing them from releasing two more hostages with no strings attached?
No one said or suggested they can’t do thart again. It’s saying Israel doesn’t want to cooperate.
I don’t want to believe Hamas straight away but Israel is the one with the track record of lies.
My point is, why does it matter if Israel cooperates or not? There’s many places to release the hostages to that aren’t Israeli.
So this press release, and the implication of it, looks like straight propaganda based on a lie.
Internally, Netanyahu can’t afford to reject any semi reasonable offer. He also wants to be able to say he did anything positive. He’ll hopefully be crucified no matter what, but in his eyes nothing is his fault and he’s working hard at getting points for any achievement and blaming everything and anyone in the past millenia.
deleted by creator
you make everything look simple. I’m slightly fascinated. then I get back into reality and I remember there’s a cruel, blind war, and huge interests and plans going far over the borders of Isreal and Gaza.
the spiraling hate between parts? ah! silly them! “why they don’t just…”
It’s not simple. But it does demonstrate hamas is lying about their willingness to release two hostages no strings attached.
again you’re oversimplifying things, with these black and white statements. extremely dangerous, extremely…
How are they not lying? If they want to release two hostages they have a variety of options that don’t involve Israel. They could drop them off at the Egyptian border, they could drop them off at the Red Cross, they could drop them off at any of the UN compounds.
They’re unwillingness to release two hostages is completely on them. For them to try to blame Israel is disingenuous, and clearly a lie.
But I’m open to being wrong, how is Hamas prevented from releasing two hostages right now? What prevents them from dropping them off at the Red Cross or any of the UN compounds right now today?
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/five-red-cross-red-crescent-staffers-killed-in-armed-hostilities-in-israel-gaza/3016053
That site blocks my country. So I can’t read the article.
But yes everything in Gaza has danger. But they could publicize the fact that they’re dropping off at the Red Cross, post a video, live stream it, whatever. It would show the willing and it’s not dependent on Israel
Here’s the first 2 sentences.
I understand it’s not the whole article but please try to extrapolate with the information given
Edit: Or like… you could def read enough from that URL that you could google it yourself if you actually cared…
Yes. I agree. It’s a war crime. It’s terrible. But it has nothing to do with Hamas releasing hostages. They could release them to the UN, or the Red Cross. The incumbent danger of the war zone doesn’t change. They could get the credit for releasing the hostages even if a bombing later destroys the Red Cross building.
I think that trying to rationalize the behavior of two xenophobic, nationalist, religious fundamentalist far right parties it’s just a sterile exercise, often practiced (can’t rightly say if that’s your will, too) to leave out of the discourse one of these two parties, to implicitly side with one of them. that’s all I have to say. have a good day
Have a good day.
I think we’ve demonstrated conclusively hamas’s lying at least about this.
Israel’s lying about many things as well, but that’s not what the articles about.
I welcome you to show me where my logic is incorrect any time in the future when you have the bandwidth.
let’s see if I’m going to regret this
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-23/ty-article/.premium/two-elderly-israeli-women-released-from-hamas-captivity-after-17-days/0000018b-5e18-d307-adbb-7f387a240000
That’s great. I’m glad they released two hostages.
I can’t read the article, I don’t have an account on that site and I hit the paywall.
I’m genuinely happy to hostages were released.
https://archive.ph/ZJnM9 I was able to read the article. It looks like they dropped off the hostages at the Red Cross.
.
Not constantly, not every minute. Get them close to the border and then tell Egypt they’re there. Tell the press they’re there
Or released to the Red Cross, or the UN inside of The Gaza strip.
I’m unemployed I’m going to respond to every single message you post replying to me.
I asked you this already, don’t be dishonest, with what internet? With what electricity?
What press my guy? They kicked aljazera out and bombed the AP building a few years ago with no evidence given. They’ve killed 23 journalists since the beginning of the month
There are reporters for Al Jazeera and other organizations in the Gaza strip. Charging a cell phone, using satellite internet, all things available to a government.
And if not the government, the UN in Red Cross have communication capabilities.
Israel kicked Al Jazeera out of there Israeli offices, Al Jazeera still has reporters in the Gaza strip, you just have to go to their web page and see their daily reports
Israel’s killing a lot of journalists it’s true, and there are journalists there because it’s important, there are journalists there because their Palestinian they can’t leave. Media is still getting out
https://www.aljazeera.com/tag/israel-palestine-conflict/
But let’s take your point to its logical conclusion, how could Hamas tell us that they’re unable to release hostages if they don’t have access to the internet?
Yes, I didn’t say they revoked the journalists citizenship. Israel bombed the AP building 2 years ago. Israel has bombed a bunch of hospitals and ambulances. Israel is killing humanitarian aid.
The UN wasn’t able to get in for like 3 days after a ceasefire on the border was negotiated. These are not realistic suggestions.
You only need wired electricity to (record a video and) tell us they’re unable to release hostages. Showing a livestream of them releasing hostages requires mobile internet+electricity and requires at least one additional point of internet+(wired) electricity (the tower to broadcast the phone signal).
I’ll grant you the logistics behind a live stream would be interesting in a war zone.
But they do have the capability to communicate their activities, to get hostages to be picked up quickly by either Egypt, the Red Cross, or the UN.
If you can admit that then I can admit that dropping them off with the Red Cross and taking photos of the release and airdropping them to like 20 homies (or like 2 journalists) should provide enough evidence to be recovered in case of disaster.
But with how quickly disinformation is spread, with the asymmetric technical capabilities, with the fact that 2 hostages were just released safely with no issue, I don’t blame Hamas for trying to do this as safely as possible.
Source on Egypt bombing the border crossings cuz I’m pretty sure that’s Israel?
Yeah Egypt’s not bombing the border. I don’t know where you got that impression, but that’s definitely not something I said
Well because if you’ve been paying attention at all it’s very clear that it isn’t safe to cross the border because someone is not allowing it
Yeah it’s dangerous. But I didn’t say Egypt was bombing the border.
You’re not disagreeing that someone is though
Israel is bombing the Rafah border crossing. They’ve even published reports saying they’ve done it.
I never said Egypt was. This whole discussion started when you said I said that Egypt was bombing the border crossing. Something I’ve never said.