I never understood the recurring argument that gunplay in Fallout 4 is better than 3. 3 and NV are built around VATS while gunplay is an afterthought, and 4 turned that around. It’s like comparing apples and oranges.
VATS was a terrible integration of the aiming system of rhe early Fallout games.
Fallout 3 implemented VATS because Bethesda didn’t know how to incorporate guns well to the game, this was self admitted. Bethesda had proven they couldn’t handle the IP in a lot of ways this one just one of many.
New Vegas isn’t focused around VATS. They actually disliked the system and designed gunplay to be better than Fallout 3. You can actually ads in New Vegas.
That’s just an opinion, not an objective truth. Fact is, VATS was implemented in 3 and NV because it’s a Fallout staple and basically was the core combat mechanic in 1 and 2. In my opinion VATS is one of the many things that made 3 and NV better than the more recent iterations
Fair, it is just an opinion and not fact as you say. It’s just when I’ve watched anyone play its always been VATS - run around while ap replenish, VATS again. Until all enemies are dead, if it wasn’t an overwhelming majority of the way people I’ve personally observed play, my opinion would be different.
Aiming was not a core mechanic in the first two Fallouts. It’s actually an underused mechanic because one of the best traits disables it. VATS lasily tries to combine the aiming system and the turn based mode of the originals and fails. Fallout 4 did VATS better.
Bethesda admitted VATS was included because they couldn’t get a hang of guns in thier engine.
New Vegas devs disliked the implementing of VATS and improved the gun play in several ways.
I dunno if it wasn’t usable I just never used it. If I can aim I’m going to aim, I didn’t use it in nv either because they actually made aiming a worthwhile thing to do.
I played NV for several hundreds of hours. I can’t remember a single popup that said “please don’t use VATS”. But that’s beside the point anyway. It’s the same implementation as in 3 and it was just right for me.
I feel like the aimed shots in the classic Fallouts were just a way to incorporate the trade-offs of taking more time to line up better shots into a turn-based system, so in some sense VATS is kind of a new thing from 3… But it is definitely a call back to the old systems, which is kind of cool.
I definitely do not like how awful the gun play is in Fallout 3, though, and VATS is pretty much required as a result, which isn’t great. That said, I really do like VATS as an idea, and it’s kind of an awesome little accessibility feature too. It’d be neat if more games had something like it. Not everybody has the reflexes or aiming skills to get through certain games.
I’ve never used VATS, and I’ve beaten 3, NV, and I’m almost done with 4. I don’t care for it, so I raw dog the shooting instead. Works fine. Maybe headshots are harder on console.
Fallout 3 used RPG mechanics that caused weapon spread based on character stats, so unless you put points into gun skills you’re going to have a hard time by design.
I’ve beaten all three modern games on console both VATS and free aim. Fallout 4 has by far the best shooter mechanics, it’s what ID software does. Iron sites in Vegas certianly helped as an FPS, but it also removed the RPG gun spread and replaced it with requirements to use the various weapons. This made your ability with guns binary, you could either use it or you couldn’t. In 3 it was a progression.
In the end, I guess it just comes down to taste and what you are looking for in the game. Its Bethesda so you know there is going to be jank. The shitty collision objects in 3 were always far more a problem for me than the weapon mechanics.
Having said all that, I’ve been watching the development of this mod for a long time and wish I had a PC to play it on.
I never understood the recurring argument that gunplay in Fallout 4 is better than 3. 3 and NV are built around VATS while gunplay is an afterthought, and 4 turned that around. It’s like comparing apples and oranges.
VATS was a terrible integration of the aiming system of rhe early Fallout games.
Fallout 3 implemented VATS because Bethesda didn’t know how to incorporate guns well to the game, this was self admitted. Bethesda had proven they couldn’t handle the IP in a lot of ways this one just one of many.
New Vegas isn’t focused around VATS. They actually disliked the system and designed gunplay to be better than Fallout 3. You can actually ads in New Vegas.
No vats is a nod to one and two which used ap and three player targeted body parts. Legit did no one actually play one and two?
The reliance on vats is a problem. It should be a tool, not a solution.
That’s just an opinion, not an objective truth. Fact is, VATS was implemented in 3 and NV because it’s a Fallout staple and basically was the core combat mechanic in 1 and 2. In my opinion VATS is one of the many things that made 3 and NV better than the more recent iterations
Fair, it is just an opinion and not fact as you say. It’s just when I’ve watched anyone play its always been VATS - run around while ap replenish, VATS again. Until all enemies are dead, if it wasn’t an overwhelming majority of the way people I’ve personally observed play, my opinion would be different.
Aiming was not a core mechanic in the first two Fallouts. It’s actually an underused mechanic because one of the best traits disables it. VATS lasily tries to combine the aiming system and the turn based mode of the originals and fails. Fallout 4 did VATS better.
Bethesda admitted VATS was included because they couldn’t get a hang of guns in thier engine.
New Vegas devs disliked the implementing of VATS and improved the gun play in several ways.
Again, just another opinion formulated as if it is fact. To me VATS was not usable in 4 but 3 and NV did it perfectly
I dunno if it wasn’t usable I just never used it. If I can aim I’m going to aim, I didn’t use it in nv either because they actually made aiming a worthwhile thing to do.
New Vegas did VATS perfectly by recommending not using it?
I played NV for several hundreds of hours. I can’t remember a single popup that said “please don’t use VATS”. But that’s beside the point anyway. It’s the same implementation as in 3 and it was just right for me.
I feel like the aimed shots in the classic Fallouts were just a way to incorporate the trade-offs of taking more time to line up better shots into a turn-based system, so in some sense VATS is kind of a new thing from 3… But it is definitely a call back to the old systems, which is kind of cool.
I definitely do not like how awful the gun play is in Fallout 3, though, and VATS is pretty much required as a result, which isn’t great. That said, I really do like VATS as an idea, and it’s kind of an awesome little accessibility feature too. It’d be neat if more games had something like it. Not everybody has the reflexes or aiming skills to get through certain games.
I’ve never used VATS, and I’ve beaten 3, NV, and I’m almost done with 4. I don’t care for it, so I raw dog the shooting instead. Works fine. Maybe headshots are harder on console.
Ah, console, that might make sense. I never had any trouble with aiming in 3 or NC, either. I rarely even considered using VATS.
Fallout 3 used RPG mechanics that caused weapon spread based on character stats, so unless you put points into gun skills you’re going to have a hard time by design.
I’ve beaten all three modern games on console both VATS and free aim. Fallout 4 has by far the best shooter mechanics, it’s what ID software does. Iron sites in Vegas certianly helped as an FPS, but it also removed the RPG gun spread and replaced it with requirements to use the various weapons. This made your ability with guns binary, you could either use it or you couldn’t. In 3 it was a progression.
In the end, I guess it just comes down to taste and what you are looking for in the game. Its Bethesda so you know there is going to be jank. The shitty collision objects in 3 were always far more a problem for me than the weapon mechanics.
Having said all that, I’ve been watching the development of this mod for a long time and wish I had a PC to play it on.
because intent isnt relevant to a product that sells based on how well it keeps you engaged in practice
Oh I never thought of it that way.