“Officials said that Israel and Egypt were prepared to let foreigners leave the Strip which is under heavy Israeli bombardment, but Hamas had refused.”

  • @Aceticon
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    1 year ago

    As a retired Major-General explained on TV over here the other day, Hamas is a Insurrection Movement, which are made of 3 parts, the Political Side, the Military Side and Popular Support.

    Want to destroy Hamas, destroy its popular support side.

    The current indiscriminate bombing of Palestinians will never destroy it because not only does it increase the Popular Support for any Insurrection Movement against Israel, it also adds to the number of people who would join the military wing of such a movement (i.e. directly put their lives at risk), especially because for all the parroting of Israel’s “human shields” propaganda, what the people there see is Israel choosing to bomb and kill their family, so even those who detest Hamas will detest Israel much much more and with good reason.

    Unless Israel is willing to commit a Nazi-sized Genocide (which I suspect its current leadership would do if they thought they could get away with, hence their talk of a “second Nakba”), the solution will never be more violence.

    • @Potatos_are_not_friends
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      161 year ago

      Israel really going for a “If there’s no witnesses, there’s no problem” approach and killing everybody.

      • @Aceticon
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        1 year ago

        They’re targetting and killing journalists (and were already doing so before this) and their families.

        States murder journalists and their families has no other reason than to stop the truth from coming out, so taking out a couple of tens of thousand who they see as untermenschen to “tie up loose ends” is hardly going to weigh on their consciences.

        • @[email protected]
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          131 year ago

          They’re targetting and killing journalists (and were already doing so before this) and their families.

          Well, they ran out of MSF doctors to shoot.

    • @[email protected]
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      121 year ago

      To stop people from going to extreme lenghts, you need to give them something to lose.

      Those people lost everything, of course they will fight by any means necessary

    • @Maggoty
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      81 year ago

      We’ve learned that bombing only makes people more resolved to fight in every war in the 20th and 21st centuries. There’s no reason it would change now. You can’t bomb away ideas.

        • @wishthane
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          1 year ago

          The idea that the atomic bombs directly caused the surrender of Japan is contested, actually. It’s more likely that they created an urgency in what was already looking like a losing battle. The difference in that situation is that Japan wasn’t fighting a war of resistance at any cost against the US, they were fighting as part of an alliance on one front of a world war. In that case it is very real that troops lose morale, civilian casualties become too great, and loss of military assets make victory look unlikely, and then surrender looks attractive by comparison. But I think in the case of popularly supported resistance to colonizers, that threshold is quite high - people feel quite strongly about revenge and are convinced of the justice of their cause in that situation, so the brutality of their colonizers isn’t likely to do anything other than strengthen their resolve.

          Frankly, I actually think the atomic bombing and firebombing campaigns would be considered war crimes if they happened today. It’s really weird that people justify it so much by how horrible the Japanese state was at the time - tons of innocent civilians, including lots of children, died horribly, and it was 100% anticipated, and in the case of the atomic bombing, they did it twice, knowing that. You can’t justify your own actions by the crimes of your enemy.

    • @TokenBoomer
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      61 year ago

      Underrated comment that everyone should read and understand.

      • @Sparlock
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        111 year ago

        The Pro-Israel crowd will say it is all lies and Israel is really making good friends with all Palestinians then act all shocked that rockets keep flying from gaza at them. Bombing the shit out of Palestinians has worked SO well over the last many decades. Yet they figure ‘we just didn’t bomb hard enough’ to make them like us!

    • @[email protected]
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      51 year ago

      That popular support will never disappear, Hamas is using Muslim vs infidels agenda. You see, that works well to brainwash Muslims worldwide. At no point would they stop cursing Israel and Jew.

        • @[email protected]
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          91 year ago

          “Israeli precision is a paragon of modern warfare” I’ve mentioned the strike that hit a vehicle carrying over 70 refugees on a designated safe route, and the claimants of Israeli’s amazing military technology have had nothing to say about it.

      • @Maggoty
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        31 year ago

        Buddy, you haven’t been paying attention to what’s been going on recently have you? Also, a warning drop does nothing but give people time to piss themselves if you only give a hospital a few minutes to evacuate.

        • @[email protected]
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          -21 year ago

          Even I knew a day before it happened that they were telling people to leave the hospital with the command center tunnels under it, I saw them talking about it on the BBC so it’s a bit rich to pretend only a few minutes was given.

          Hamas literally blocked roads going south and shot at civilians trying to flee the combat zone, Israel is going to great lengths to warn the Palestinian people and get them out the way while hamas are doing everything possible to make sure they can’t get out the way.

          • @Maggoty
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            01 year ago

            I highly doubt that. As it is the reference is to the massive number of times Israel has attacked hospitals over the years.

      • @wishthane
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        1 year ago

        Israel’s strikes are the most targeted fucking strikes you’ve ever seen a military do, and they actively warn the people in those buildings with everything from roof knocking to a phone call.

        That doesn’t even make sense. If the point is to destroy Hamas assets and people, there’s no sense in tipping them off about it. So either they’re doing that and destroying people’s homes for no reason, or they’re not actually doing that.

        It’s not actually possible to take out military targets like that in civilian neighborhoods with air strikes in a “clean” way. Obviously the only reason they don’t go in on the ground with IDF soldiers if they actually have legitimate targets instead is because the lives of Palestinean civilians are less important than the lives of Israeli soldiers, and they know that air strikes don’t lead to any casualties on their side.

      • @[email protected]
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        31 year ago

        You call it propaganda, but it’s exactly what Hamas is doing, isn’t it?

        You may need to look up ‘propaganda’.

          • @[email protected]
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            71 year ago

            Your comments are nothing but frothing Israeli propaganda. If you aren’t lying, you are extremely misinformed of the situation.

              • @[email protected]
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                01 year ago

                I did respond, I didn’t flatly call you a liar, I was implying that from my perspective your view seems to either be deliberately antagonistic and untrue or you are not receiving accurate coverage of the conflict. I love Jewish people, I’m not an antisemite or desire any sort of death for Jews or any other group for that matter, but the actions of Israel should be condemned, and they have engaged in massive misinformation campaigns related to Palestine for decades. This is not to say I don’t also condemn terrorism and killing of civilians by Hamas as well. But it is relevant to examine who is the original aggressor in the conflict and for what reason the conflict began.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    21 year ago

                    Why would I respond to baseless points that are leveled against resistance groups without fail EVERY TIME there is a conflict like this? It’s tired, I’m not that young, I’ve heard all of this already. What is your basis for saying Hamas has been purposely using Palestinians as human shields? I would have the same discussion in person, I’m open with my beliefs. I don’t want Hamas to kill anyone FFS, I’m a Buddhist and a vegetarian, I don’t even want someone to kill a fly, putting words in my mouth is not a useful way to win an argument.

                  • @Sparlock
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                    21 year ago

                    You condemn terrorism, except on the internet, where you defend it. You don’t want people to die, unless Bibi also wants them to die, in which case you’ll divert and deflect all you want.

              • @Sparlock
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                -11 year ago

                You didn’t follow your prescription in response to my comment. So I feel your comment is just a flat out lie and you would be a liar by extension.

                  • @Sparlock
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                    1 year ago

                    No I called you high.

                    Israel’s strikes are the most targeted fucking strikes you’ve ever seen a military do,

                    Are you high? https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/25/middleeast/satellite-images-gaza-destruction/index.html

                    Flattening whole communities is as targeted as using a shotgun to kill a fly.

                    In other news:

                    Bibi just called for a genocide by referring to Palestine as Amalak. If you know your torah you know what that references but if you don’t he was kind enough to spell out the verse. Netanyahu quoted from First Samuel 15:3, saying, “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. ‘Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys’” The invocation of this biblical passage serves not only as a historical reference but also as a genocidal lens through which the Prime Minister views the current conflict.

                    I’m not on the side of genocide. You sure seem to be however. I’d say that makes you a piece of shit human being.

                    Is that substantive enough for your goose-stepping ass?

                    PS. You are still a deliberate liar.

    • @SCB
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      -131 year ago

      "Israel says “Hi civilian we’re about to bomb this building because a Hamas target is inside. Please leave so you are not hurt.”

      Hamas responds with “Go stand on the roof.”

      But your suggestion is that Israel is somehow the bad guy there?

      • @Aceticon
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        1 year ago

        You “know” that because the very people bombing civilians told you so.

        Only a very special kind of person would trust killers when they provide unverifiable “justifications” for their killings that just so happen to blame somebody else and excuse their actions.

        • @SCB
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          -71 year ago

          Just so I’m clear, which aspect of what I described do you believe does not happen?

          Just wanna know the right one to cite.

          • @Aceticon
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            1 year ago

            Hi

            Please

            Hamas responds with “Go stand on the roof.”

            • @SCB
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              Israel warning people by phone, leaflet, and then “door knocking” while Hamas tells them to go to their roof/“form a human shield” https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?_r=0

              Here’s their own words, calling all Palestinians to be martyrs

              Article 8 The Hamas document reiterates the Muslim Brotherhood’s slogan of "Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur’an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah “is the loftiest of its wishes.” https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

              From wikipedia because I don’t want to read the whole charter. original charter linked below the quote (and on the Wikipedia page)

              Here’s a phone call showing the greater scale of how seriously they take viewing every Palestinian as a martyr, by forcing people to remain in the North at gunpoint

              https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1713500050511253928?t=g9Z3zsdfyW3wxIvuMxuHVg&s=19

              • @Sparlock
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                1 year ago

                Warnings like?

                On Saturday, Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari issued what he labeled an “urgent military advisory” video message on X, warning Gazans that the military is set to “neutralize” Hamas with “precision and intensity.”

                “For your immediate safety we urge all residents of Northern Gaza and Gaza City to temporarily relocate south. This is a temporary measure. Moving back to Northern Gaza will be possible once the intense hostilities end,” he said.

                Since the message, many took to X to raise questions and concerns related to the communications blackout Gaza residents are facing and how they’re expected to hear the urgency to relocate.

                Mehdi Hasan, host of The Mehdi Hasan Show on MSNBC, asked, “How are Palestinians in Gaza, who have had their electricity and internet communications cut off by the Israeli military, supposed to hear/receive this ‘urgent’ message from the Israeli military?”

                Lindsey Hilsum, international editor at British broadcaster Channel 4 News, questioned the message by posting to X, “Hard to see how this ‘urgent message’ will get to the citizens of Gaza as the Israelis cut internet and mobile phone.”

                Ayman Mohyeldin, host of AYMAN on MSNBC, noted the IDF’s use of English to issue their message rather than using Arabic.

                “The spokesman for the Israeli military is speaking in English, rather than in Arabic, to the residents of Gaza in order to deliver to them an urgent message on social media, a day after the Israeli military cut off all telephone and internet communications to the people of Gaza,” he wrote on X>.

                • @SCB
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                  11 year ago

                  Warnings like the things I posted earlier.

                  I am aware that Israel is bad at propaganda. If anything, that’s further evidence in my favor.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    31 year ago

                    If you were actually concerned about killing someone with your airstrike, wouldn’t you warn them in the fucking language they speak, in a way that actually reaches them??? I’m so fucking baffled at the psychology behind excusing what is going on.

                  • @Sparlock
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                    21 year ago

                    In your favor… wow you are truly amazing at spin. Keep making the argument that I was right about you being a duck.

                • @SCB
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                  21 year ago

                  That has nothing to do with my post whatsoever

      • @BradleyUffner
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        1 year ago

        Yes, because people that care about not killing Innocents would say “why don’t we go in shoot just the terrorist instead of leveling the whole block?”

        • @SCB
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          -11 year ago

          Urban combat results in more civilian casualties. Urban combat is a hellish meat grinder.

            • @SCB
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              -51 year ago

              Yes now imagine how easy it is to ambush there. Now imagine you live in the area still. How dangerous would an army be forced to view you as?

              You should really read up on urban combat. Aleppo has a lot of documentation on it.

          • @Maggoty
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            31 year ago

            Lmao. No. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. An Infantry fight in an urban area sucks but it’s far less destructive than leveling entire blocks with explosives.

            • @SCB
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              -41 year ago

              Less destructive but more fatal to civilians.

              It’s weird you don’t know this, honestly

              • @Maggoty
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                21 year ago

                Bullshit. Unless you’re committing war crimes left and right.

                • @SCB
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                  -31 year ago

                  Fewer civilian casualties is literally the reason the US started using drone strikes instead of boots on the ground.

                  • @Maggoty
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                    11 year ago

                    Dude. They started using drones because there’s no congressional hearing when a drone is shot down in some random African country. But you lose one green beret and there’s years of hearings. That’s why we went to drones.