I don’t think it’s a mental health problem per se - I think American society is sick.
And I don’t mean sick as in “something happened to you all” - I mean sick as in “you all willingly participate in it together”
There are plenty of other countries with guns who don’t have the same kinds of mass killings the USA does.
The problem as I see it is that so many Americans are just so fucking emotional about everything.
Everything’s a drama, or a story that needs to be be told, of a journey, or an underdog, or revenge, or a protector. Are musical montage. “I just have to tell you where I have come from” - “you just need ro know my roots”
Every disagreement is a fascist or a communist.
Nothing just “is”.
Everything has to have bullshit emotional content and context.
The trouble is none of you will ever see yourselves as part of the problem.
You’re in a narcissistic trap.
Liberals are 100% certain that “it’s the guns” and get absolutely high saying it.
TL;DR: it is the guns, but it isn’t just the guns. It isn’t any one thing and it isn’t not any one thing.
it IS the guns. It’s hard / difficult to massacre with knives.
it IS mental health too.
Canada, Australia, UK, etc have horrifically underfunded and backed up mental health care systems - but yes, still far better than anything in the USA.
Canada has guns. Australia has guns. Neither has as many guns as the USA. Neither is as easy or cheap or widely available as in the USA. Restricting guns is what actually happens and is meant by your imaginary liberals and guns. They don’t mean that farmers shouldn’t have guns - they know that as a tool, they’re useful. I’m not saying hyperbole isn’t used (which pisses me off as much as you). But what I am saying is they’re right. It’s the guns. It’s the amount of guns. It’s the types of guns.
Which brings me to:
using words like “hysterical” doesn’t help. It’s misleading, and plain wrong.
And yeah, I’ve gone off from your main point of “the USA is too emotionally extreme”. This is… not wrong, but I want to argue overly simplistic. I (and others) have described the USA not as one country, but 50 or so (I’m not sold on the Dakota twins) countries that are loosely bound by their xenophobia of everyone else more than anything else. The country wasn’t founded on a love of the USA, but the hatred of the UK.
I mean, the UK isn’t really that much different. Remember Northern Ireland and Great Britain? Scotland and England? If they had guns like the USA had guns… woo.
So, America being a drama, etc? You’re not wrong. It’s an ideology that was instilled at birth, and raised by capitalism - money from engagement, and emotionally trapped people are engaged. It’s a society/system created, used and trapped by itself.
And guns are what turns that bubbling cauldron into massacres.
And massacres make the emotional drama cauldron bubble more.
Get rid of guns, you get rid of a lot of stress and drama. You don’t solve all problems, but you solve one that is repeating and feeding the drama machine.
Sell the guns to South America/ Israel / wherever they want to ruin next, and use the money to fund affordable housing or something. Solved two birds with one stone!
PS: I’d love to see the USA fundamentally change in one big way: a stronger, standardised federal government. For example, let states do state elections however they want. But if you’re voting in a federal election, it should be the same forms, same design, same level of access everywhere in the country. If you can drive freely between states, driving rules and tests should be standardised (they basically are, rural vs city aside). Education? Anything which affects and creates a level playing field across the country, ie. federally, should be standardized. If a state wants to charge sales tax, and another doesn’t - that’s fine! That’s local.
In the same vein, remove weird voted-in positions, like judges and sheriffs. Emotional, populist,partisan involvement in roles that are supposed to be neutral and balanced is insane.
Man, voted in positions sound so reasonable and logical and democratic, it’s a real bummer it doesn’t work in our current systems. You just end up introducing marketing to everything, ugh.
Positions should be based on merit, not money (advertising) and popularity. Judges and sheriffs have to make judgement calls all the time, and I’d prefer to have people with experience and without bias (as much as possible), instead of bought and paid for. Also, accountable to the system, not just the next election.
I am very much oversimplifying it, and skipping some issues, such as other existing systemic problems - but in short: what’s popular is not always right. Like mobs.
You are simply describing the effects of political and social polarization. I blame it primarily on a decades-long process of consolidation of wealth, influence and opportunity in the hands of an elite few, but no doubt there are other factors at play as well.
On the flipside I am very much opposed to any theory of the case that has it as being somehow uniquely American. It’s not an American thing; it’s a human thing that can happen in any country and has in fact happened in many countries throughout history. It does not require that we posit some kind of national hysteria that’s unique to Americans when we can, with far fewer assumptions, simply point to polarization.
Yes, polarization is the relevant factor, as I said. What part about this do you not understand?
It’s not as if Europe has a great record in this sense either. One look at the last century tells us everything we need to know about how susceptible European populations are to polarization.
Polarisation is absolutely that bad or worse in Europe. Poland and the UK are two good examples.
Oh, and holy shit, Germany, etc. with lockdowns and such with covid. They went nuts.
Oh, and how about riots in France every year? Come on. For a relatively small country, they flip out and set fire to things WAY more often than the USA does.
Youre not entirely wrong, but I gotta say how funny it is to see a post complaining about how everyone blows each other’s positions way up fisish by saying American liberals want to take away all guns. I’m sure you can find an American liberal that says that, but they’re in a massive minority. Most of us would be very happy with Canada’s level of gun control. You have to take a gun safety class and pass a safty test for any gun, with an extra class and test and a license for hand guns and assault rifles.
Canada also has a system for helping people with mental health problems that doesn’t bankrupt the person.
Im pretty sure that’s exactly what the Democrats have been asking for for the last 30 odd years.
As an American who’s about as progun as you can get and still think the government has a responsibility to tax its wealthiest citizens and keep it’s poorest out of poverty, I’d welcome the same level of gun control as we apply to owning motor vehicles: license programs to ensure everyone who can legal own/operate one is familiar with safe use, practice and undergone a bare minimum level of mental evaluation so that a psycopath or sociopatn can’t just have a bad day to turn it on the general public. It would be a tough pill to swallow for some gun owners but if it was paired with removing a lot of the baseless restrictions (looking at you California compliant) with regular requirements such as yearly renewals and checkups with the ability for referrals to be made if a person starts acting in a way they could become a danger and law enforcement required to act upon it or face immediate termination if they were found to ignore it.
Combine that with single payer/universal healthcare with a comprehensive mental health for every citizen and it could lead to better diagnosing people suffering from conditions that could make them a threat to public safety and get them treatment that would hopefully help them live and not suffer from such conditions to say nothing of lower the chances for these violent outbursts.
Its a fantasy, yes I know. But the current system clearly doesn’t work, and prohibition and war on drugs has shown repeatedly that restricting everyone to stop the minority of abusers only makes a massive underground/black market for such things that actually makes it easier to people to abuse them in ways that are more difficult to track and prevent. I’d rather try to make the fantasy work than pursue a method I know is only goin to have short term benefits and long term problems.
Yeah but there are lots of people saying it’s the guns (literally in this thread) - that’s basically what the OP is about.
But even then the right wing acting like scared little babies about it too.
It’s just everything is turned up to 11 with you lot.
You use the word everything a lot and phrases like “you’re all”. That’s hyperbole. You can’t possibly know what all 330+ million people think or how everyone acts and are likely basing your views off what you see on social media or in the news, not real life.
Everything’s a drama, or a story that needs to be be told
Well you should ask yourself if you’re an outsider looking in through the lens of our media.
Because if you are, and you see us through our media, our media is very focus on profit generation, and gives a very ‘two sides fighting’ view of everything that is America, as that drives viewership and profits the most.
It’s from when I actually meet you lot. I won’t even date Americans now in my city - it’s just always some drama.
I’m sure not all Americans are like that and I’ve worked with some really cool ones - no doubt, but there’s definitely a culture of emotional drama that contributes to an unhealthy greater society.
It’s a lot of Americans to have met to make a blanket statement like you did though.
I’m sure not all Americans are like that and I’ve worked with some really cool ones - no doubt, but there’s definitely a culture of emotional drama that contributes to an unhealthy greater society.
Well one thing to understand about America is there’s multiple/many cultures, not just one, and it depends on what region of the country you’re viewing. And then on top of that there’s two or three meta cultures.
Also, you’re not catching us at our best right now, we are pretty angry at each other here over politics right now, so try to consider that as well.
Insert Fight Club quotes. We’ve known for years. The American Dream is consumed by everyone from everywhere and when it doesn’t come true, no one knows what to do.
I’m not talking about the laws. I’m talking about personality wise, you’re all so bloody emotional and feel everything is some important story or drama.
I don’t think it’s a mental health problem per se - I think American society is sick.
And I don’t mean sick as in “something happened to you all” - I mean sick as in “you all willingly participate in it together”
There are plenty of other countries with guns who don’t have the same kinds of mass killings the USA does.
The problem as I see it is that so many Americans are just so fucking emotional about everything.
Everything’s a drama, or a story that needs to be be told, of a journey, or an underdog, or revenge, or a protector. Are musical montage. “I just have to tell you where I have come from” - “you just need ro know my roots”
Every disagreement is a fascist or a communist.
Nothing just “is”.
Everything has to have bullshit emotional content and context.
The trouble is none of you will ever see yourselves as part of the problem.
You’re in a narcissistic trap.
Liberals are 100% certain that “it’s the guns” and get absolutely high saying it.
But it’s not the guns. Canada has guns.
Loads of other countries have guns.
You’re all fucking hysterical.
TL;DR: it is the guns, but it isn’t just the guns. It isn’t any one thing and it isn’t not any one thing.
it IS the guns. It’s hard / difficult to massacre with knives.
it IS mental health too.
Canada, Australia, UK, etc have horrifically underfunded and backed up mental health care systems - but yes, still far better than anything in the USA.
Which brings me to:
And yeah, I’ve gone off from your main point of “the USA is too emotionally extreme”. This is… not wrong, but I want to argue overly simplistic. I (and others) have described the USA not as one country, but 50 or so (I’m not sold on the Dakota twins) countries that are loosely bound by their xenophobia of everyone else more than anything else. The country wasn’t founded on a love of the USA, but the hatred of the UK.
I mean, the UK isn’t really that much different. Remember Northern Ireland and Great Britain? Scotland and England? If they had guns like the USA had guns… woo.
So, America being a drama, etc? You’re not wrong. It’s an ideology that was instilled at birth, and raised by capitalism - money from engagement, and emotionally trapped people are engaged. It’s a society/system created, used and trapped by itself.
And guns are what turns that bubbling cauldron into massacres.
And massacres make the emotional drama cauldron bubble more.
Get rid of guns, you get rid of a lot of stress and drama. You don’t solve all problems, but you solve one that is repeating and feeding the drama machine.
Sell the guns to South America/ Israel / wherever they want to ruin next, and use the money to fund affordable housing or something. Solved two birds with one stone!
PS: I’d love to see the USA fundamentally change in one big way: a stronger, standardised federal government. For example, let states do state elections however they want. But if you’re voting in a federal election, it should be the same forms, same design, same level of access everywhere in the country. If you can drive freely between states, driving rules and tests should be standardised (they basically are, rural vs city aside). Education? Anything which affects and creates a level playing field across the country, ie. federally, should be standardized. If a state wants to charge sales tax, and another doesn’t - that’s fine! That’s local.
In the same vein, remove weird voted-in positions, like judges and sheriffs. Emotional, populist,partisan involvement in roles that are supposed to be neutral and balanced is insane.
And the guns aren’t helping.
Man, voted in positions sound so reasonable and logical and democratic, it’s a real bummer it doesn’t work in our current systems. You just end up introducing marketing to everything, ugh.
It is completely unreasonable in every respect.
Positions should be based on merit, not money (advertising) and popularity. Judges and sheriffs have to make judgement calls all the time, and I’d prefer to have people with experience and without bias (as much as possible), instead of bought and paid for. Also, accountable to the system, not just the next election.
I am very much oversimplifying it, and skipping some issues, such as other existing systemic problems - but in short: what’s popular is not always right. Like mobs.
Damn, this should be copied and pasted to everyone arguing its not guns, you’ve covered basically ALL of the talking points incredibly well
Look, I don’t think it’s merely about mental health spend either.
I genuinely think that Americans are not very laid back.
It’s mir magic - some nations are more laid back than others.
You say the word “hysterical” doesn’t help.
But it’s what you need to hear.
Everything has to be coated with so much sugar you all get fat and the meaning is lost.
Yeah. That’s what’s it is. You’re just all always looking for drama and shit to get upset about.
It’s not more complicated than that. It doesn’t need everyone to sit down and get to therapy or make a TV show show about your pain.
It’s just that you’re all always looking for drama.
You are simply describing the effects of political and social polarization. I blame it primarily on a decades-long process of consolidation of wealth, influence and opportunity in the hands of an elite few, but no doubt there are other factors at play as well.
On the flipside I am very much opposed to any theory of the case that has it as being somehow uniquely American. It’s not an American thing; it’s a human thing that can happen in any country and has in fact happened in many countries throughout history. It does not require that we posit some kind of national hysteria that’s unique to Americans when we can, with far fewer assumptions, simply point to polarization.
Polarisation isn’t that bad in Europe. We take things in our stride better.
We’re not constantly freaking out over tiny things.
America seems neurotic.
Yes, polarization is the relevant factor, as I said. What part about this do you not understand?
It’s not as if Europe has a great record in this sense either. One look at the last century tells us everything we need to know about how susceptible European populations are to polarization.
Polarisation is absolutely that bad or worse in Europe. Poland and the UK are two good examples.
Oh, and holy shit, Germany, etc. with lockdowns and such with covid. They went nuts.
Oh, and how about riots in France every year? Come on. For a relatively small country, they flip out and set fire to things WAY more often than the USA does.
Youre not entirely wrong, but I gotta say how funny it is to see a post complaining about how everyone blows each other’s positions way up fisish by saying American liberals want to take away all guns. I’m sure you can find an American liberal that says that, but they’re in a massive minority. Most of us would be very happy with Canada’s level of gun control. You have to take a gun safety class and pass a safty test for any gun, with an extra class and test and a license for hand guns and assault rifles.
Canada also has a system for helping people with mental health problems that doesn’t bankrupt the person.
Im pretty sure that’s exactly what the Democrats have been asking for for the last 30 odd years.
As an American who’s about as progun as you can get and still think the government has a responsibility to tax its wealthiest citizens and keep it’s poorest out of poverty, I’d welcome the same level of gun control as we apply to owning motor vehicles: license programs to ensure everyone who can legal own/operate one is familiar with safe use, practice and undergone a bare minimum level of mental evaluation so that a psycopath or sociopatn can’t just have a bad day to turn it on the general public. It would be a tough pill to swallow for some gun owners but if it was paired with removing a lot of the baseless restrictions (looking at you California compliant) with regular requirements such as yearly renewals and checkups with the ability for referrals to be made if a person starts acting in a way they could become a danger and law enforcement required to act upon it or face immediate termination if they were found to ignore it.
Combine that with single payer/universal healthcare with a comprehensive mental health for every citizen and it could lead to better diagnosing people suffering from conditions that could make them a threat to public safety and get them treatment that would hopefully help them live and not suffer from such conditions to say nothing of lower the chances for these violent outbursts.
Its a fantasy, yes I know. But the current system clearly doesn’t work, and prohibition and war on drugs has shown repeatedly that restricting everyone to stop the minority of abusers only makes a massive underground/black market for such things that actually makes it easier to people to abuse them in ways that are more difficult to track and prevent. I’d rather try to make the fantasy work than pursue a method I know is only goin to have short term benefits and long term problems.
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Yeah but there are lots of people saying it’s the guns (literally in this thread) - that’s basically what the OP is about. But even then the right wing acting like scared little babies about it too.
It’s just everything is turned up to 11 with you lot.
All the fucking time.
Says the person who wrote a comment filled with hyperbole and points taken to their extremes.
Where’s the hyperbole?
You use the word everything a lot and phrases like “you’re all”. That’s hyperbole. You can’t possibly know what all 330+ million people think or how everyone acts and are likely basing your views off what you see on social media or in the news, not real life.
Our propaganda machine is generational and runs deep.
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Well you should ask yourself if you’re an outsider looking in through the lens of our media.
Because if you are, and you see us through our media, our media is very focus on profit generation, and gives a very ‘two sides fighting’ view of everything that is America, as that drives viewership and profits the most.
It’s from when I actually meet you lot. I won’t even date Americans now in my city - it’s just always some drama.
I’m sure not all Americans are like that and I’ve worked with some really cool ones - no doubt, but there’s definitely a culture of emotional drama that contributes to an unhealthy greater society.
It’s a lot of Americans to have met to make a blanket statement like you did though.
Well one thing to understand about America is there’s multiple/many cultures, not just one, and it depends on what region of the country you’re viewing. And then on top of that there’s two or three meta cultures.
Also, you’re not catching us at our best right now, we are pretty angry at each other here over politics right now, so try to consider that as well.
No one is perfect 100% of the time.
You’ll find there’s a huge difference in attitude between what I call tourists and travellers.
Immigrants and expats too.
(In Americans outside of the USA)
Insert Fight Club quotes. We’ve known for years. The American Dream is consumed by everyone from everywhere and when it doesn’t come true, no one knows what to do.
It’s called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
Meh. Many other people from many other countries believed it. I hear ya. It’s apt for today. But it didn’t used to be that way
It was always that way, things look great when you build on the beach, not so much when the tide comes.
It also doesn’t help when we have fear mongering passing as legitimate news.
Not to detract from your well written comment, but there is something of a disconnect between the will of the populace and those who enact the laws.
I’m not talking about the laws. I’m talking about personality wise, you’re all so bloody emotional and feel everything is some important story or drama.
Well I’m describing the reasons why people may get “emotional and feel everything is some important story or drama”.
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