That would require reading Marx lol. These hot takes usually come from reactionaries mimicking what they hear from other reactionaries/charlatans/media towing the stateline. Marx was wrong about some things of course, like the revolutions to a democratically worker owned economy would come from the industrialized centres. But knowing about the ideas which are critical of our current economic system is dangerous to a few, and freeing to the majority.
The part about “Marx said revolutions would come from industrial centers” is also commonly misinterpreted. Marx said that this would be how it would work out in western europe, but he actually even speculated that in a country like Russia, it might come from the peasantry instead.
Hopefully dude is currently reading Marx trying to find logical fallacies in his philosophy. Dudes gonna come out a staunch Marxist in no time. There is a reason Libraries dont have his works available for loan on most Libraries.
In his book, he charts the course of human history and tries to predict where it will end up. He comes to the conclusion that a violent revolution will soon come to pass as the workers overthrow their bosses and start sharing resources.
“Soon come to pass” was 150 years ago, the Revolution hasn’t happened. Marxist scholars since then have been recreating the letters between early Christians asking why He hadn’t returned yet as promised and pushing the date of the Second Coming back.
In my opinion, Marx wrote his conclusion first, then cherry picked the points in history that supported his conclusion.
The US lost a war to Vietnamese nationalists that adopted the trappings of Communism in order to get materiel support from China. They rejected it, and China, as soon as possible
In my opinion, Marx wrote his conclusion first, then cherry picked the points in history that supported his conclusion.
I can’t fathom the arrogance of people who say “Marx just didn’t think of x, y or z”. He invariably did, and a quote is easily found to prove them wrong. Yet they continue to say this bollocks. “Marx didn’t consider human nature, Marx didn’t know about x obscure economic theory,” on and on until the cows come home. Capital has 3 volumes, and each is thick and heavy enough to make a decent murder weapon. They are so long precisely because he did do the thinking you accuse him of not doing.
The one single thing we can legitimately say he didn’t anticipate was the computer revolution, and it in fact only strengthens his theories, as digital technology has gone on to strengthen the hold of capital, and laid bare its incestuous relationship with the State.
Oh, get fucked if you’re gonna try the pedantic game. Go ahead and tell me how I got it wrong and what you really meant if you’re gonna try this sleazy tactic. Otherwise, stfu with your bollocks.
Marx made mistakes though. For example, he assumed that the right of appropriating the whole product of a firm and control rights to direct the workers in the firm were attached to the ownership of capital. In reality, capital can be rented out just as labor can be hired. It is really the employer-employee contract that is at the core of capitalist appropriation. Ownership of capital just increases bargaining power to get favorable contract terms such as the employer contractual role
Marx thought that control rights over the firm were attached to ownership of capital rather than being logically separately acquired in the employer-employee relationship.
“It is not because he is a leader of industry that a man is a capitalist; on the contrary, he is a leader of industry because he is a capitalist. The leadership of industry is an attribute of capital, just as in feudal times the functions of general and judge were attributes of landed property.” – Marx
Like another commenter mentioned, it did come to pass, just not in the places he predicted, such as Germany or other industrialized centers. It happened in more rural countries, like Russia or China. It doesn’t mean all his ideas were wrong though, just that his theories needed testing and additions.
I wouldn’t say common, more that a broken clock is right twice a day
Aight, I’ll call your bluff, give me 22 things he was wrong about. I’ll wait.
That would require reading Marx lol. These hot takes usually come from reactionaries mimicking what they hear from other reactionaries/charlatans/media towing the stateline. Marx was wrong about some things of course, like the revolutions to a democratically worker owned economy would come from the industrialized centres. But knowing about the ideas which are critical of our current economic system is dangerous to a few, and freeing to the majority.
The part about “Marx said revolutions would come from industrial centers” is also commonly misinterpreted. Marx said that this would be how it would work out in western europe, but he actually even speculated that in a country like Russia, it might come from the peasantry instead.
How convenient
lmao his biggest critics have never read anything he wrote.
nice rhetoric, I’ll remember that
Hopefully dude is currently reading Marx trying to find logical fallacies in his philosophy. Dudes gonna come out a staunch Marxist in no time. There is a reason Libraries dont have his works available for loan on most Libraries.
Jordan Peterson said he’s bad so checkmate
Once again, broken clocks being right twice a day.
Still waiting on you to tell us what Marx was wrong about…
Oh yeah…
There are people that you shouldn’t waste too much of a breath on with a debate and I consider you and the rest of you fine folks here to be them.
Sure buddy
Ok.
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I’m not that well read up on his stuff. What was he so wrong about?
In his book, he charts the course of human history and tries to predict where it will end up. He comes to the conclusion that a violent revolution will soon come to pass as the workers overthrow their bosses and start sharing resources.
“Soon come to pass” was 150 years ago, the Revolution hasn’t happened. Marxist scholars since then have been recreating the letters between early Christians asking why He hadn’t returned yet as promised and pushing the date of the Second Coming back.
In my opinion, Marx wrote his conclusion first, then cherry picked the points in history that supported his conclusion.
Maybe read a history book?
I seems to recall the US losing a war to communists in the 1970s for instance.
I don’t think their point was that no revolution has happened but the revolution to change it all didn’t happen like he assumed
plenty of successful revolutions did occur though, just not in places under the control of the ‘west’
very chauvinistic view to hold IMO
I mean the world revolution was already sorta stopped before nukes came into play. Maybe next time though, never say never
The US lost a war to Vietnamese nationalists that adopted the trappings of Communism in order to get materiel support from China. They rejected it, and China, as soon as possible
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam
Wer’re Sorry Try Again
That doesn’t sound very communist to me, and I’ve heard plenty of times that a mixed economy isn’t a socialist one at all.
Or is that only when it’s a European country?
you hear those self-aware wolves howling?
I can’t fathom the arrogance of people who say “Marx just didn’t think of x, y or z”. He invariably did, and a quote is easily found to prove them wrong. Yet they continue to say this bollocks. “Marx didn’t consider human nature, Marx didn’t know about x obscure economic theory,” on and on until the cows come home. Capital has 3 volumes, and each is thick and heavy enough to make a decent murder weapon. They are so long precisely because he did do the thinking you accuse him of not doing.
The one single thing we can legitimately say he didn’t anticipate was the computer revolution, and it in fact only strengthens his theories, as digital technology has gone on to strengthen the hold of capital, and laid bare its incestuous relationship with the State.
Nothing you said rebutted the section of my comment you quoted, you just started fighting strawmen
Don’t try and lie so blatantly. I directly responded to your implication that Marx just wasn’t thinking about things clearly.
Nothing in that implies what you’re accusing me of
Oh, get fucked if you’re gonna try the pedantic game. Go ahead and tell me how I got it wrong and what you really meant if you’re gonna try this sleazy tactic. Otherwise, stfu with your bollocks.
Oh ok, what I really meant was:
Marx made mistakes though. For example, he assumed that the right of appropriating the whole product of a firm and control rights to direct the workers in the firm were attached to the ownership of capital. In reality, capital can be rented out just as labor can be hired. It is really the employer-employee contract that is at the core of capitalist appropriation. Ownership of capital just increases bargaining power to get favorable contract terms such as the employer contractual role
You just described Marx’s theories, while claiming to correct them.
Wild.
Marx thought that control rights over the firm were attached to ownership of capital rather than being logically separately acquired in the employer-employee relationship.
“It is not because he is a leader of industry that a man is a capitalist; on the contrary, he is a leader of industry because he is a capitalist. The leadership of industry is an attribute of capital, just as in feudal times the functions of general and judge were attributes of landed property.” – Marx
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See, that’s what I mean. You treat The Revolution as an inevitability, then twist yourself into knots to justify why it hasn’t happened yet.
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Like another commenter mentioned, it did come to pass, just not in the places he predicted, such as Germany or other industrialized centers. It happened in more rural countries, like Russia or China. It doesn’t mean all his ideas were wrong though, just that his theories needed testing and additions.
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