Thoughts == benign shit passing through your brain that cause no personal discomfort.
Obtrusive thoughts == shit that intrudes on your regular internal monologue and causes discomfort or fixation.
It’s fine to have such thoughts, and it’s also fine to acknowledge that you don’t want them. Like I’m trying to get on with my day, but now my brain is playing a vivid horror show and I just want to finish my TPS report, not walk through every moment of myself shattering Steve’s skull with the fire axe because he can’t figure out how to use the collate function on the printer.
Sure, you can embrace that shit as fictional, but it’s distracting in the moment.
I guess there are degrees of intrusive thoughts, because no, it’s not really the same. ‘Don’t think about the elephant’ causes a benign and very fleeting fixation.
Intrusive thoughts are things that linger, often in a disturbing way, long after you want them gone. They interfere with your ability to focus.
The elephant thing is like a musical ear worm whereas intrusive thoughts can be like someone blaring industrial music in your ears. I’m not explaining this well, but it’s on another level.
I’m going to copy and paste my reply from another comment thread because it better explains my philosophical stance.
I am not emotionally disturbed by my ‘intrusive thoughts’ because they have as much bearing on reality as whether I like the smell of burnt toast. They are also my thoughts, I take full ownership of them, they aren’t something that happens to me they’re something I do.
I don’t suffer their affliction, I have no personal experience with their incapacities. I don’t let my pain define me, I own my thoughts, and even when I don’t like the things I think, they are mine alone to think about.
I honestly and genuinely wish anyone who is afflicted by their own thoughts can access the tools and skills they need to improve their mental fortitude and improve their lives by learning to tolerate themselves.
I’m glad you’re so enlightened, but you should also understand that just because you have a zen-like mastery over your whole brain doesn’t mean it’s effortless for everyone.
I’d posit that rather than arguing with a definition that helps many people understand their own challenges, you might consider that the definition isn’t wrong, it’s just not meant for you. That those people are accessing the tools and skills they need, and this definition is one of those tools.
Truth be told, I don’t suffer from overly intrusive thoughts, either, but I understand and can empathise with those who do. We’re not all the same, and understanding each other’s experiences is one of our greatest strengths as humans.
Any you’re right, we all have our failings. Mine is an incapacity to enjoy seeing people afflicted by their mental anguish when I feel like adjusting their perspective to fit mine is what gives me the ability to control myself.
This results in me being unable to sympathise with those people despite empathising with them because it makes me feel like they’re actively rejecting one of those tools that will get them where they need to be.
Like being thrown a rope when you’re stuck in the well, if you reject the rope what is the person up top supposed to think?
I’d perhaps liken it more to jumping in the water to save someone who’s drowning.
You’re trying to help them and they should logically know that, but their instinct drives them to grab you everywhere and act like an anchor, drowning you both.
No matter how rational a person is, emotion and subconscious reactions can override all of that. That’s not really a failing as it’s the basis for empathy, but those same subconscious reactions can form a feedback loop that’s very difficult to escape.
I’d perhaps liken it more to jumping in the water to save someone who’s drowning.
Thank you, that’s an anology I can work with.
No matter how rational a person is, emotion and subconscious reactions can override all of that.
I wish that was the case. I’m diagnosed as high functioning autistic presenting, 100% autism free, but my natural capacity for logic obliterated my emotional development. I can and do functionally parse all my emotional thought through logic. This is my weakness and my strength.
I’m not unaware that my approaches are often mistaken for dismissal or ignorance of people’s feelings, because they are, but they’re also the tools that emotional people need to temper their emotions.
I don’t lack empathy, I lack the tools to express it, work in progress.
These people are at the bottom of the well and I don’t have a rope, but that’s not going to stop me jumping in to try save them, even if I do drown every time until I get one. I just hope I can teach some of them to climb without the rope even though they feel like they need it.
but my natural capacity for logic obliterated my emotional development. I can and do functionally parse all my emotional thought through logic. This is my weakness and my strength.
Dude, 100% same. I spent the better part of two decades developing my capacity for empathy (it was a core requirement in my chosen career), and I still have issues truly relating on an individual level.
Humans are messy, incoherent, illogical creatures. You and I are, too, whether or not we want to see it. The pitfall we face is our propensity to extrapolate our personal experience to others where that just doesn’t work. We want things to make sense, and we think our solution should just work, but people aren’t like coins with binary answers. They’re more like a fistful of dice made of slime and bees with no numbers on their faces.
We make you want to give up because we’re confusing and painful. Eventually you can figure out patterns, though they’ll change and frustrate you.
Sorry for the mini-rant. I’ve enjoyed our conversation.
The functional difference is:
Thoughts == benign shit passing through your brain that cause no personal discomfort.
Obtrusive thoughts == shit that intrudes on your regular internal monologue and causes discomfort or fixation.
It’s fine to have such thoughts, and it’s also fine to acknowledge that you don’t want them. Like I’m trying to get on with my day, but now my brain is playing a vivid horror show and I just want to finish my TPS report, not walk through every moment of myself shattering Steve’s skull with the fire axe because he can’t figure out how to use the collate function on the printer.
Sure, you can embrace that shit as fictional, but it’s distracting in the moment.
Sure, but handling an ‘intrusive thought’ is functionally no different to how you handle any other thought.
I say ‘pink elephants’ you’re going to fixate for a bit, how that affects you emotionally won’t change that functionally for you.
I guess there are degrees of intrusive thoughts, because no, it’s not really the same. ‘Don’t think about the elephant’ causes a benign and very fleeting fixation.
Intrusive thoughts are things that linger, often in a disturbing way, long after you want them gone. They interfere with your ability to focus.
The elephant thing is like a musical ear worm whereas intrusive thoughts can be like someone blaring industrial music in your ears. I’m not explaining this well, but it’s on another level.
I’m going to copy and paste my reply from another comment thread because it better explains my philosophical stance.
I am not emotionally disturbed by my ‘intrusive thoughts’ because they have as much bearing on reality as whether I like the smell of burnt toast. They are also my thoughts, I take full ownership of them, they aren’t something that happens to me they’re something I do.
I don’t suffer their affliction, I have no personal experience with their incapacities. I don’t let my pain define me, I own my thoughts, and even when I don’t like the things I think, they are mine alone to think about.
I honestly and genuinely wish anyone who is afflicted by their own thoughts can access the tools and skills they need to improve their mental fortitude and improve their lives by learning to tolerate themselves.
I’m glad you’re so enlightened, but you should also understand that just because you have a zen-like mastery over your whole brain doesn’t mean it’s effortless for everyone.
I’d posit that rather than arguing with a definition that helps many people understand their own challenges, you might consider that the definition isn’t wrong, it’s just not meant for you. That those people are accessing the tools and skills they need, and this definition is one of those tools.
Truth be told, I don’t suffer from overly intrusive thoughts, either, but I understand and can empathise with those who do. We’re not all the same, and understanding each other’s experiences is one of our greatest strengths as humans.
e: a word
Any you’re right, we all have our failings. Mine is an incapacity to enjoy seeing people afflicted by their mental anguish when I feel like adjusting their perspective to fit mine is what gives me the ability to control myself.
This results in me being unable to sympathise with those people despite empathising with them because it makes me feel like they’re actively rejecting one of those tools that will get them where they need to be.
Like being thrown a rope when you’re stuck in the well, if you reject the rope what is the person up top supposed to think?
I’d perhaps liken it more to jumping in the water to save someone who’s drowning.
You’re trying to help them and they should logically know that, but their instinct drives them to grab you everywhere and act like an anchor, drowning you both.
No matter how rational a person is, emotion and subconscious reactions can override all of that. That’s not really a failing as it’s the basis for empathy, but those same subconscious reactions can form a feedback loop that’s very difficult to escape.
Thank you, that’s an anology I can work with.
I wish that was the case. I’m diagnosed as high functioning autistic presenting, 100% autism free, but my natural capacity for logic obliterated my emotional development. I can and do functionally parse all my emotional thought through logic. This is my weakness and my strength.
I’m not unaware that my approaches are often mistaken for dismissal or ignorance of people’s feelings, because they are, but they’re also the tools that emotional people need to temper their emotions.
I don’t lack empathy, I lack the tools to express it, work in progress.
These people are at the bottom of the well and I don’t have a rope, but that’s not going to stop me jumping in to try save them, even if I do drown every time until I get one. I just hope I can teach some of them to climb without the rope even though they feel like they need it.
I can’t help, so let me help you help yourself.
Dude, 100% same. I spent the better part of two decades developing my capacity for empathy (it was a core requirement in my chosen career), and I still have issues truly relating on an individual level.
Humans are messy, incoherent, illogical creatures. You and I are, too, whether or not we want to see it. The pitfall we face is our propensity to extrapolate our personal experience to others where that just doesn’t work. We want things to make sense, and we think our solution should just work, but people aren’t like coins with binary answers. They’re more like a fistful of dice made of slime and bees with no numbers on their faces.
We make you want to give up because we’re confusing and painful. Eventually you can figure out patterns, though they’ll change and frustrate you.
Sorry for the mini-rant. I’ve enjoyed our conversation.