So mastodon.world, calckey.world and lemmy.world are all run by ruud and looking at mastodon.world it states they have 3 admins in total. So 2 besides ruud. And i assume the same group is involved in all of these.
This is just what i managed to figure out before joining lemmy.
I don’t want to be that guy but does this guy have a good track record? Kind of feel he managed to get a good Lemmy domain (generic sounding one) and now he has the biggest instance.
• He’s been running a fairly large Mastodon instance too, and it seems like it’s been going well.
• If I end up disappointed, the beauty of the fediverse is that I can up and leave. In fact, I already did: I started with an account on Beehaw, and I moved to Lemmy.world when they defederated a few instances whose contents I was interested in. It was a fairly painless move.
So for now I’m donating $5/month, and we’ll see what happens from here.
At this moment, I expect that ‘the average Joe’ is still on Reddit.
The current growth of the user base will be mostly technical users, that aren’t to afraid to try things and fail miserably.
By the time the Reddit population is fed up with all the ads, lack of content,… they’ll move over and (hopefully) find a few very stable and established instances. I even guess we’ll have a few instances that have almost no local communities, but are mainly used to jump off to other communities. But for now, I guess that the average technical know how in the community is a tad higher then ‘average Joe’, or at least they won’t be afraid to make a big mess and learn from that.
Here are the key factors I see behind Lemmy.world’s success:
Lemmy.ml was buckling under load, and at least one of the admins (and Lemmy developer) is an unapologetic communist & China sympathizer.
Beehaw.orgis a classic powermod situation where the admins want to micromanage every community. It also was struggling under load.
Lemmy.world was scaled quickly to handle the load, hasn’t been controversial in their policies, and for the most part just works.
As has been pointed out in other comments, the power of the fediverse is that if one instance becomes “evil”, users and communities can and will abandon it for another instance.
Here are the key factors I see behind Lemmy.world’s success:
Lemmy.ml was buckling under load, and at least one of the admins (and Lemmy developer) is an unapologetic communist & China sympathizer.
Beehaw.orgis a classic powermod situation where the admins want to micromanage every community. It also was struggling under load.
Lemmy.world was scaled quickly to handle the load, hasn’t been controversial in their policies, and for the most part just works.
As has been pointed out in other comments, the power of the fediverse is that if one instance becomes “evil”, users and communities can and will abandon it for another instance.
Tbh when I joined I didn’t completely understand the fediverse. I tried to join Lemmy One first because it sounded generic enough. It didn’t accept new joiners so I moved to the next generic one.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that a lot of users are going to do the same. And even though I might swear in church now, I guess that’s the fragility you get with fediverse. Ruud can kill this instance at any point. He can grow bored, decide he wants to put his money elsewhere, instance can grow too big for him to afford, etc. People are angry Reddit have 30 days but Ruud could easily kill this instance overnight.
Reddit is a shithole of a company, but at least you can trust a company to like money and certain futures are simply not realistic because that would hurt the income.
I have no doubt Reddit will still be here in five years. I wouldn’t bet the same amount on any fediverse instance
Tbh when I joined I didn’t completely understand the fediverse. I tried to join Lemmy One first because it sounded generic enough. It didn’t accept new joiners so I moved to the next generic one
I understand that lemmy or federated services are confusing for those unfamiliar with it, so I don’t expect a user to be familiar with every single detail about it. But if you make an account on any site whatsoever, you either understand the basics of what the website is about or you don’t have any expectations about creating an account…
that’s the fragility you get with fediverse.
The fact that instances could disappear overnight is an inherent characteristic of federated and decentralized services. You can call it “fragility”, one might also look at it as strenght. Because even if an instance decides to just shut down overnight, the fediverse is not going anywhere and it also means that new instances can also appear overnight.
He can grow bored, decide he wants to put his money elsewhere, instance can grow too big for him to afford, etc. Ruud could easily kill this instance overnight.
Yeah sure, all of this is possible. But why would he do that? If he doesn’t want to do it anymore, he could just give the project to someone else. And even if the worst case scenario happens and he decided to shut the instance down for some reason, the entire point of lemmy is that even 10 instances shutting down would not kill lemmy.
I have no doubt Reddit will still be here in five years. I wouldn’t bet the same amount on any fediverse instance
Again, why does that matter? A lemmy instance and reddit as a media site is not comparable. It would be more accurate to compare a lemmy instance with an individual subreddit, except that the lemmy devs have no power to shut down an instance while the reddit devs can shut down a subreddit…
Why the passive-aggression? It’s rather difficult to ask the question without joining SOME instance. And a feature of the fediverse is that it really doesn’t matter which instance you join first, because you’re supposed to be able to switch very easily.
If I came across as passive aggressive, I apologize, that was not my intention.
It’s rather difficult to ask the question without joining SOME instance.
In my personal view, it’s already a strange question to ask internet strangers and if people cared about a service or an account they create, I would expect them to do basic 5 minute “research” about that service/account by which I mean clicking on the rules and guidelines in the sidebar. If I didn’t do that, it would mean to me that I have no expectation of that service at all. Maybe I’m expecting too much, I don’t know, but that’s something I would definitely do and expect others to do as well.
And a feature of the fediverse is that it really doesn’t matter which instance you join first, because you’re supposed to be able to switch very easily.
If you don’t care about your account and just want to be able to access lemmy, which instance you join doesn’t matter because if the instance turns out to be bad or goes out of service, you can set up another account in 10 seconds. But if you care about your comment/post history or can’t be bothered to set up a new account on another instance, at this moment, it does matter who you choose to trust at least a little bit.
The answer is always yes for hosted services. The data has to be stored somewhere, and it is readable if not explicitly encrypted on your device before being send to the server. Some things like passwords are usually handled differently though, they are not readable by anyone.
That’s one of the reasons why picking an instance is a big deal. You trust that instance with moderation and handling of your data. If you’re not comfortable with any instance then you should look into hosting your own!
That begs the question, does admin has access all of our data?
Yes, of course… The data is on his server, he has access to his own server and everything that’s on it. This is true for any online service whatsoever, the only exception would be encrypted data.
If he wants, can he sell the data to some big corporation?
Not legally, unless the privacy policy is changed.
Do we disclose any information to outside parties?
We do not sell, trade, or otherwise transfer to outside parties your personally identifiable information. This does not include trusted third parties who assist us in operating our site, conducting our business, or servicing you, so long as those parties agree to keep this information confidential. We may also release your information when we believe release is appropriate to comply with the law, enforce our site policies, or protect ours or others rights, property, or safety.
Your public content may be downloaded by other servers in the network. Your public and followers-only posts are delivered to the servers where your followers reside, and direct messages are delivered to the servers of the recipients, in so far as those followers or recipients reside on a different server than this.
To be clear, the admins do not need to sell the information you share publicly, afaik it’s already freely and available in the open to anyone (as mentioned above in the privacy policy) and there is nothing stopping any outside party from scraping this data.
I mean, every website except one you run on your own hardware has this exact problem: whoever is running it owns it completely, and they set the rules (within legal boundaries).
The only ways you can avoid this are:
Run your websites yourself (which is kinda low-value; imagine the Geocities era, but everyone has to set up the hardware and the networks and the domain names and everything themselves), or…
Stick to websites that have an easy “escape hatch”, where you can easily bail at any time. This is how Lemmy/Mastodon/Kbin and the Fediverse at large are designed: if your local server admin sucks, well, you can just join a different server, and you can still see content from all the other servers as before (assuming the place you “escaped” to hasn’t blocked them).
It will be the case with the fediverse in general. But the point of the federation is to make it easier to switch instance, reducing the power of the owners.
An ideal solution to this would be a fully distributed system. But this has many technical challenges as it pushes the complexity on the client side. And the moderation is then also more complex. Federation aims at finding the good trade-off between giving power to a few capable people to manage the network, yet making it difficult for them to abuse the system as users can easily switch ship without losing their entire social network. This is similar to emails - changing your email address is a pain, but you don’t lose your contacts and can still talk to people with your new address.
Bill is paid by using donations through open collective and Patreon:
https://opencollective.com/mastodonworld
https://www.patreon.com/mastodonworld
Which is confirmed in their blog post about Lemmy:
https://blog.mastodon.world/
So mastodon.world, calckey.world and lemmy.world are all run by ruud and looking at mastodon.world it states they have 3 admins in total. So 2 besides ruud. And i assume the same group is involved in all of these.
This is just what i managed to figure out before joining lemmy.
Also [email protected] might be a good follow.
I don’t want to be that guy but does this guy have a good track record? Kind of feel he managed to get a good Lemmy domain (generic sounding one) and now he has the biggest instance.
Do we know he’s a jolly good fellow?
I’m not too worried about it, because:
• He’s been running a fairly large Mastodon instance too, and it seems like it’s been going well.
• If I end up disappointed, the beauty of the fediverse is that I can up and leave. In fact, I already did: I started with an account on Beehaw, and I moved to Lemmy.world when they defederated a few instances whose contents I was interested in. It was a fairly painless move.
So for now I’m donating $5/month, and we’ll see what happens from here.
And when very disappointed, nobody stops users from starting their own instance and federate from there.
Knowledge does 🤷
People underestimate how important it is with a nice, stable, default experience for the average Joe.
At this moment, I expect that ‘the average Joe’ is still on Reddit. The current growth of the user base will be mostly technical users, that aren’t to afraid to try things and fail miserably.
By the time the Reddit population is fed up with all the ads, lack of content,… they’ll move over and (hopefully) find a few very stable and established instances. I even guess we’ll have a few instances that have almost no local communities, but are mainly used to jump off to other communities. But for now, I guess that the average technical know how in the community is a tad higher then ‘average Joe’, or at least they won’t be afraid to make a big mess and learn from that.
Here are the key factors I see behind Lemmy.world’s success:
As has been pointed out in other comments, the power of the fediverse is that if one instance becomes “evil”, users and communities can and will abandon it for another instance.
Here are the key factors I see behind Lemmy.world’s success:
As has been pointed out in other comments, the power of the fediverse is that if one instance becomes “evil”, users and communities can and will abandon it for another instance.
Isn’t it a bit funny that you are asking that after you have already joined the server and accepted all the rules, etc?
I mean that’s up to you to decide, idk. what answer you are expecting… You have the same information on him as we do, the info on his mastadon:
https://mastodon.world/@ruud
Tbh when I joined I didn’t completely understand the fediverse. I tried to join Lemmy One first because it sounded generic enough. It didn’t accept new joiners so I moved to the next generic one.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that a lot of users are going to do the same. And even though I might swear in church now, I guess that’s the fragility you get with fediverse. Ruud can kill this instance at any point. He can grow bored, decide he wants to put his money elsewhere, instance can grow too big for him to afford, etc. People are angry Reddit have 30 days but Ruud could easily kill this instance overnight.
Reddit is a shithole of a company, but at least you can trust a company to like money and certain futures are simply not realistic because that would hurt the income.
I have no doubt Reddit will still be here in five years. I wouldn’t bet the same amount on any fediverse instance
I understand that lemmy or federated services are confusing for those unfamiliar with it, so I don’t expect a user to be familiar with every single detail about it. But if you make an account on any site whatsoever, you either understand the basics of what the website is about or you don’t have any expectations about creating an account…
The fact that instances could disappear overnight is an inherent characteristic of federated and decentralized services. You can call it “fragility”, one might also look at it as strenght. Because even if an instance decides to just shut down overnight, the fediverse is not going anywhere and it also means that new instances can also appear overnight.
Yeah sure, all of this is possible. But why would he do that? If he doesn’t want to do it anymore, he could just give the project to someone else. And even if the worst case scenario happens and he decided to shut the instance down for some reason, the entire point of lemmy is that even 10 instances shutting down would not kill lemmy.
Again, why does that matter? A lemmy instance and reddit as a media site is not comparable. It would be more accurate to compare a lemmy instance with an individual subreddit, except that the lemmy devs have no power to shut down an instance while the reddit devs can shut down a subreddit…
If an instance disappears people can move to another instance. A slight inconvenience but worth it to escape corporate control.
If you are community creator and lose all the data that’s a big problem
Why the passive-aggression? It’s rather difficult to ask the question without joining SOME instance. And a feature of the fediverse is that it really doesn’t matter which instance you join first, because you’re supposed to be able to switch very easily.
If I came across as passive aggressive, I apologize, that was not my intention.
In my personal view, it’s already a strange question to ask internet strangers and if people cared about a service or an account they create, I would expect them to do basic 5 minute “research” about that service/account by which I mean clicking on the rules and guidelines in the sidebar. If I didn’t do that, it would mean to me that I have no expectation of that service at all. Maybe I’m expecting too much, I don’t know, but that’s something I would definitely do and expect others to do as well.
If you don’t care about your account and just want to be able to access lemmy, which instance you join doesn’t matter because if the instance turns out to be bad or goes out of service, you can set up another account in 10 seconds. But if you care about your comment/post history or can’t be bothered to set up a new account on another instance, at this moment, it does matter who you choose to trust at least a little bit.
That begs the question, does admin has access all of our data? If he wants, can he sell the data to some big corporation?
The answer is always yes for hosted services. The data has to be stored somewhere, and it is readable if not explicitly encrypted on your device before being send to the server. Some things like passwords are usually handled differently though, they are not readable by anyone.
That’s one of the reasons why picking an instance is a big deal. You trust that instance with moderation and handling of your data. If you’re not comfortable with any instance then you should look into hosting your own!
Yes, of course… The data is on his server, he has access to his own server and everything that’s on it. This is true for any online service whatsoever, the only exception would be encrypted data.
Not legally, unless the privacy policy is changed.
This is my understanding without doing any research on Lemmy specifically and what, if any, differences there is compared to others.
Always assume that the answer is Yes. Regardless what you are using within the fediverse.
Again, Yes. Buti think they would be breaking their own privacy policy:
Looking at https://lemmy.world/legal and it refers to https://mastodon.world/about where general rules are clearly laid out that is also enforced afaik on lemmy.world. Them linking that page makes me assume that the same privacy policy that is used on mastodon.world also applies here, this can be seen at https://mastodon.world/privacy-policy
To be clear, the admins do not need to sell the information you share publicly, afaik it’s already freely and available in the open to anyone (as mentioned above in the privacy policy) and there is nothing stopping any outside party from scraping this data.
They do need to update https://lemmy.world/legal though asap to make things clear.
Sounds like an unhealthy powermod situation again
I mean, every website except one you run on your own hardware has this exact problem: whoever is running it owns it completely, and they set the rules (within legal boundaries).
The only ways you can avoid this are:
With Lemmy you can do both. A lot of people are setting up small, <10 user instances to control their data and stay out of federation drama.
It will be the case with the fediverse in general. But the point of the federation is to make it easier to switch instance, reducing the power of the owners.
An ideal solution to this would be a fully distributed system. But this has many technical challenges as it pushes the complexity on the client side. And the moderation is then also more complex. Federation aims at finding the good trade-off between giving power to a few capable people to manage the network, yet making it difficult for them to abuse the system as users can easily switch ship without losing their entire social network. This is similar to emails - changing your email address is a pain, but you don’t lose your contacts and can still talk to people with your new address.
This is a question regardless of instance and the size of the instance. At least in my mind.
Personally I don’t have too much concern right now but if anything happens that changes that then I’ll just leave.