I have a feeling the conversation to have with most of the founders would be centered around the political weaponization of the Second Amendment in the face of almost daily mass shootings. I have a strong suspicion that the “well-regulated militia” part of that amendment would become much more pronounced.
They would be far more concerned with the government embracing fascism, than they would about 2nd amendment considerations. If anything, they’d push for a less restrictive 2nd amendment, and dismantling of federal power structures. They were revolutionaries, after all.
Agreed, though the correlation between the modern advance of fascism and the people who press the hardest on gun rights is hard to dismiss. Of course, I am only pointing to the correlation in sets, there are obviously elements of each set which do not belong to the other, but the cardinality of the intersection far outstripes that of the difference.
Frankly that’s a failure of nonfascists to realize the value of self defense, if the dems supported gun rights too and also armed up, the fascists wouldn’t be “the ones who press the hardest,” simple as.
The problem is the fundamental ideological difference between conservatives and liberals in this country.
Conservatives are bullheaded, uncompromising, and single-minded. They view compromise as weakness and failure, and anyone who is willing to express empathy is a lesser class of human. They would rather destroy something than compromise or find a middle ground. And heaven forbid you ask them to sacrifice for their fellow man. What you recognize as “pressing the hardest” is not standing up for ideals or being strong-willed, it is digging heels in on every hill. It takes a lot more strength to be able to sacrifice when getting nothing in return because it is the right thing to do.
Liberals are usually more empathetic and compromising. They attempt to view things from alternative perspectives and tend to be more open to sacrificing to make things better for the greater whole.
Both mentalities can have a time and place. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter how heavily armed the liberal populace is, the odds of them utilizing their armaments against the fascists is slim to none unless they are backed into a corner.
I am not personally against guns as a concept. I do recognize their value and choose not to own any out of self-recognition and regulation of my mental health. That doesn’t mean I’m not versed in their use. I’m a crack shot and know how to keep and maintain most of them if the need arose where protecting my family from external threats was more of an existential circumstance than protecting from inner demons.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter how heavily armed the liberal populace is, the odds of them utilizing their armaments against the fascists is slim to none unless they are backed into a corner.
You mean “they won’t kill people until they HAVE to?” Oh noooo, that’s so horrible, using guns and violence as a last resort rather than murdering people before it comes to that?
That’s a good thing dude.
I am not personally against guns as a concept. I do recognize their value and choose not to own any out of self-recognition and regulation of my mental health. That doesn’t mean I’m not versed in their use. I’m a crack shot and know how to keep and maintain most of them if the need arose where protecting my family from external threats was more of an existential circumstance than protecting from inner demons.
Cool just as long as you don’t want to take them from people who do want them and haven’t proven themselves to be a danger to society. I don’t care about people controlling themselves, just don’t try to control others.
Conservatives are bullheaded, uncompromising, and single-minded.
Tbh in this context they’ve compromised enough since 1934, the NFA, the GCA, the Brady Bill, endless pointless state feature bans, the '94-'04 AWB, Bumpstock ban, red flag “due process second” (which violates more rights than just the 2nd), ad nauseum. Have they got anything in return? The HPA or Constitutional Carry which they’ve been pushing for recently? No. How is it a “compromise” when one side keeps getting their way and chipping away at the right only for them to start chipping again after they get their “compromise?” When will enpugh be enough, after this AWB they’re pushing for doesn’t fix anything? After they ban 90% of handguns and rifles because they don’t understand semi-auto, which they’ve been trying to do recently? No, they’ll keep pushing until they can’t because they won, and they’re “not bullheaded?”
I was speaking more of a general psychology of each group than to the individual gun control issue. The legislation surrounding firearms has rarely been something that I concern myself with as it rarely can screw me over personally. There is so much lubeless anal going on from every seat of government, regardless of who’s ass is in the seat to manage all of it, and I already have entirely rational anger outbursts daily from the ones I do concern myself with. I wish you the best in your fight and I will keep on mine. Guns aren’t mine in general, aside from the mass shootings and school shootings, which, while stricter gun control could mitigate, are truly mental health issues indicative of a cripplingly deficient medical care infrastructure. If we dealt with problems with we’ll paid social workers instead of police and did not stigmatize mental illness while lifting bully culture up on some pedestal like it is something that should be aspired to we would likely see a decrease in the mass killings that are plaguing the country and only increasing.
That said, I wish you the best on your hill and I salute your commitment to it.
Keep in mind, what you posted is the legislative definition, not the constitutional meaning. If Congress wanted to, they could expand the legislated meaning. They could expand it to 16 to 60, or 8 to 80 if they wanted. They could change from the “able body” to “sound mind” standard, include women, or change from citizens and prospective citizens to “American persons” and draft green-card holders.
The point is that the definition you provided is only a tiny portion of the Constitutional meaning. The constitutional meaning of “militia” is “We The People” and the definition of “Well Regulated” is whatever policies, practices, rules, and laws that Congress seems necessary and proper to enact with their Article I powers regarding the militia.
Basically, Congress can force every high school graduate to have attended “militia” training on the laws governing use of force and safe gun handling. They are empowered to “prescribe” such “discipline” on the militia. But whether they choose to do that or not, they cannot prohibit people from keeping and bearing arms.
Basically, Congress can force every high school graduate to have attended “militia” training on the laws governing use of force and safe gun handling. They are empowered to “prescribe” such “discipline” on the militia. But whether they choose to do that or not, they cannot prohibit people from keeping and bearing arms. >
Pretty sure this would solve a lot of issues surrounding the Second Amendment, as well as many others. If everyone is well-trained by the same precise regimen, then everyone can be expected to comport themselves properly moving forward. Works for public education, would work for this.
Unless you are not an American, I am not creating a hypothetical scenario; I am stating that under the constitutional meaning of the term, you are a militia member. You may not be one for which Congress has created an obligation to register with selective service. You may not qualify under Congress’s rules to be drafted. But under the constitution, Congress can use their powers over the militia to compel you to act. You. Are. Militia.
When you insinuate that the Militia is not “well regulated”, what additional regulations do you wish to be subjected to?
Personally, I think every member of the militia (Every American) should be required to attend a class on the laws governing use of force. Not enough people actual understand them.
I have a feeling the conversation to have with most of the founders would be centered around the political weaponization of the Second Amendment in the face of almost daily mass shootings. I have a strong suspicion that the “well-regulated militia” part of that amendment would become much more pronounced.
They would be far more concerned with the government embracing fascism, than they would about 2nd amendment considerations. If anything, they’d push for a less restrictive 2nd amendment, and dismantling of federal power structures. They were revolutionaries, after all.
Agreed, though the correlation between the modern advance of fascism and the people who press the hardest on gun rights is hard to dismiss. Of course, I am only pointing to the correlation in sets, there are obviously elements of each set which do not belong to the other, but the cardinality of the intersection far outstripes that of the difference.
Frankly that’s a failure of nonfascists to realize the value of self defense, if the dems supported gun rights too and also armed up, the fascists wouldn’t be “the ones who press the hardest,” simple as.
The problem is the fundamental ideological difference between conservatives and liberals in this country.
Conservatives are bullheaded, uncompromising, and single-minded. They view compromise as weakness and failure, and anyone who is willing to express empathy is a lesser class of human. They would rather destroy something than compromise or find a middle ground. And heaven forbid you ask them to sacrifice for their fellow man. What you recognize as “pressing the hardest” is not standing up for ideals or being strong-willed, it is digging heels in on every hill. It takes a lot more strength to be able to sacrifice when getting nothing in return because it is the right thing to do.
Liberals are usually more empathetic and compromising. They attempt to view things from alternative perspectives and tend to be more open to sacrificing to make things better for the greater whole.
Both mentalities can have a time and place. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter how heavily armed the liberal populace is, the odds of them utilizing their armaments against the fascists is slim to none unless they are backed into a corner.
I am not personally against guns as a concept. I do recognize their value and choose not to own any out of self-recognition and regulation of my mental health. That doesn’t mean I’m not versed in their use. I’m a crack shot and know how to keep and maintain most of them if the need arose where protecting my family from external threats was more of an existential circumstance than protecting from inner demons.
You mean “they won’t kill people until they HAVE to?” Oh noooo, that’s so horrible, using guns and violence as a last resort rather than murdering people before it comes to that?
That’s a good thing dude.
Cool just as long as you don’t want to take them from people who do want them and haven’t proven themselves to be a danger to society. I don’t care about people controlling themselves, just don’t try to control others.
Tbh in this context they’ve compromised enough since 1934, the NFA, the GCA, the Brady Bill, endless pointless state feature bans, the '94-'04 AWB, Bumpstock ban, red flag “due process second” (which violates more rights than just the 2nd), ad nauseum. Have they got anything in return? The HPA or Constitutional Carry which they’ve been pushing for recently? No. How is it a “compromise” when one side keeps getting their way and chipping away at the right only for them to start chipping again after they get their “compromise?” When will enpugh be enough, after this AWB they’re pushing for doesn’t fix anything? After they ban 90% of handguns and rifles because they don’t understand semi-auto, which they’ve been trying to do recently? No, they’ll keep pushing until they can’t because they won, and they’re “not bullheaded?”
I was speaking more of a general psychology of each group than to the individual gun control issue. The legislation surrounding firearms has rarely been something that I concern myself with as it rarely can screw me over personally. There is so much lubeless anal going on from every seat of government, regardless of who’s ass is in the seat to manage all of it, and I already have entirely rational anger outbursts daily from the ones I do concern myself with. I wish you the best in your fight and I will keep on mine. Guns aren’t mine in general, aside from the mass shootings and school shootings, which, while stricter gun control could mitigate, are truly mental health issues indicative of a cripplingly deficient medical care infrastructure. If we dealt with problems with we’ll paid social workers instead of police and did not stigmatize mental illness while lifting bully culture up on some pedestal like it is something that should be aspired to we would likely see a decrease in the mass killings that are plaguing the country and only increasing.
That said, I wish you the best on your hill and I salute your commitment to it.
I really doubt it. If they intended the right to belong to militias or members of one, they would have written that instead of people.
Plus there are a lot of people in the militia. Specifically every able-bodied male from the ages of 17 to 45.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part1/chapter12&edition=prelim
Keep in mind, what you posted is the legislative definition, not the constitutional meaning. If Congress wanted to, they could expand the legislated meaning. They could expand it to 16 to 60, or 8 to 80 if they wanted. They could change from the “able body” to “sound mind” standard, include women, or change from citizens and prospective citizens to “American persons” and draft green-card holders.
The point is that the definition you provided is only a tiny portion of the Constitutional meaning. The constitutional meaning of “militia” is “We The People” and the definition of “Well Regulated” is whatever policies, practices, rules, and laws that Congress seems necessary and proper to enact with their Article I powers regarding the militia.
Basically, Congress can force every high school graduate to have attended “militia” training on the laws governing use of force and safe gun handling. They are empowered to “prescribe” such “discipline” on the militia. But whether they choose to do that or not, they cannot prohibit people from keeping and bearing arms.
Pretty sure this would solve a lot of issues surrounding the Second Amendment, as well as many others. If everyone is well-trained by the same precise regimen, then everyone can be expected to comport themselves properly moving forward. Works for public education, would work for this.
Or perhaps put something in about a militia, but one that was well regulated.
You are a militia member.
Unless you are not an American, I am not creating a hypothetical scenario; I am stating that under the constitutional meaning of the term, you are a militia member. You may not be one for which Congress has created an obligation to register with selective service. You may not qualify under Congress’s rules to be drafted. But under the constitution, Congress can use their powers over the militia to compel you to act. You. Are. Militia.
When you insinuate that the Militia is not “well regulated”, what additional regulations do you wish to be subjected to?
Personally, I think every member of the militia (Every American) should be required to attend a class on the laws governing use of force. Not enough people actual understand them.
So you just don’t understand basic grammar.