I can’t verify it because there is no name or information about the person who did it in the news, but I assumed that it was a person who came to France later. After all, I don’t think there were many Muslims in France 100 years ago 😅 Even if he wasn’t, my thoughts still stand.
In the same comment chain, I’ve said that “normal muslims” can become radicalized as well. We’re in welfare times right now. What will happen in WW3? What will happen when your country attacks to a muslim country? Can you guarentee those peaceful Muslims will still be peaceful?
France has been supporting Israel at first in October. Did you see millions of Muslims French killing other people?
Immediately following the Oct. 7 attacks, Macron condemned Hamas and supported Israel’s right to defend itself. On Oct. 12, his government controversially banned all pro-Palestinian protests due to the potential for violence and antisemitic incidents (in the past, protesters have burned cars and pelted police officers with stones, and chanted antisemitic slogans).
While the majority of French Muslims remain moderate in their views, small pockets of extremists support Hamas and have called for the destruction of Israel.
You’re still thinking “white/black/brown” debate. I’m talking about waaayy different subject. You know exactly what people I’m talking about. You are just trying to bend the situation.
No you werent. You were making braod assumptions that are already proven to be wrong and you blame it on “Islam”, which implies “all Muslims”, despite there being evidence of psychiatric disorder in the suspect. Schizophrenia and other disorders with mania often express themselves in religious symbols. but if a psychatric ill person refers to Christianity would you say that this is Christianity for everyone? Probably not.
Also you should consider carefully, if you want to stir more anti-Muslim sentiment. When it comes to progroms, the people will not care if you are muslim, atheist, christian or jew. They’ll just see a “brown” person. You might get praise from the political right now, but they will not protect you, no matter how loudly you announce to be different from the other “brown people”.
Have you never asked yourself why so many people of this one religion turn out to have “psychological problems”? What are the chances of that statistically if, as you seem to suggest, religion has nothing to do with this?
Next, this person is trying to disassociate their skin color from their opinion, and in response you are insisting on essentializing them on the basis of biology. Have you considered how close this puts you to people you claim to abhor?
Have you never asked yourself why so many people of this one religion turn out to have “psychological problems”? What are the chances of that statistically if, as you seem to suggest, religion has nothing to do with this?
No, because this is horseshit. Muslims in Europe aren’t more violent than non muslims. They are more often subject to violence and discrimination by the white majority though. It is just that violence commited by muslims, or people claimed to be muslim is disproporitonately sensationalized by right wing media. Of course this is accompanied with white supremacists spurting desinformation and claiming every crime, where no information on nationality, skin colour or religion of the suspects is known, as being commited by muslims. Also violence against muslims is systematically underreported, but that would make for another dozens paragraphs.
and in response you are insisting on essentializing them on the basis of biology. Have you considered how close this puts you to people you claim to abhor?
You are wrong. I’m warning him, that this will be done to him, by the people whose agenda he is supporting, by making evidently false claims about the suspect and the treatment of the suspect. He is also blowing the right wing dogwhistle of violent muslims being “imported” to Europe. And the fascists whose position he is strengthening by doing this will not care. Just earlier this week an ex-muslim gay men of turkish origin wanted to join the German Nazi party AfD. He was met with calls to violence and having him deported, that led to him experiencing more racism and hostility in a few days, than in his entire life in Germany before. The fascist dogs will not accept him for blowing their whistle. They’ll tear him apart like everybody else if they get the chance to.
Muslims in Europe aren’t more violent than non muslims
In terms of terrorism, the statistics say otherwise. In terms of general crime, the prison statistics do too. Of course, you will explain all this away as a product of systemic discrimination. But does it not bother you that immigrants of other religions, who also may also have darker skins, do so much better in their adopted homelands?
Also violence against muslims is systematically underreported
This is conspiracism. It’s impossible to argue with, by definition.
It is just that violence commited by muslims, or people claimed to be muslim is disproporitonately sensationalized by right wing media
This common argument is interesting because the implication is that speaker is somehow intellectually superior than the person being addressed. We all have access to the same information, how come only you know how to avoid being indoctrinated? Are you saying I’m dumb? Go on, just come out and say, I won’t be offended.
Because that’s what underlies the argument. As it happens, and as you might guess, I personally am extremely well-informed, and almost entirely from mainstream professional journalists who are affiliated to boring organizations with serious reputations to protect. I am over-educated and I don’t go near sensationalist right-wing media, or social media. And in fact I don’t even vote for right-wing parties. How do you explain that? I think you should try a new tack: taking people’s opinions at face value rather than looking for manipulation, and listening to why people themselves say they think what they do.
Addendum. Downvoting is so much easier than finding a counter-argument, right? I will take it as proof that my points hit their mark. Good night.
Regardless of color, I was saying that the west should be careful about Muslims. And I still say that. I don’t have any ulterior motives. Interpret it however you want.
There is no point in calling me a bigot without giving any reason.
Is it enough for me to say “you are right” to end this discussion? Because it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Because I don’t agree with most of your opinions and you don’t seem to be able to change mine.
At a guess, you seem to be talking to a member of a generation that never got contradicted during its childhood, that believes it has all the answers, that sees dissenters to its groupthink as social deviants who need be silenced. The Western enlightenment is yesterday’s news, we’ve moved on in the West! Well done for keeping your cool and staying polite.
Against a former Muslim, who fled a Muslim led country because of their Muslim laws. Telling them they’re a bigot for hating Islam is fucking condescending, white savior syndrome.
Who are you to tell others how to think? Asking them to apologize, are you serious? The level of self-righteousness and self-absorption in your attitude is worrying.
I’m not telling him what to think. I’m telling him he’s being a little coward, throwing the rock then hiding the hand.
So it’s up to him. Either he didn’t mean to be a horrible bigot, then he can apologize for it and we’re cool. Or he did, and then he has to own it.
I’m not telling him what to think. He’s free to be a bigot. God knows it’s a pretty widespread affliction. But he can’t deliberately engage in that kind of behavior and get away with equivocating hoping no one notices.
attitude is worrying
No, what is worrying is accepting that behavior in a public place. This is not, and will not be, the Nazi bar.
The whole concept of apologizing for opinions is just, well, wild. To me yes but I assure you to quite a lot of other people too. Not wanting to make this personal, but I would put money on a wager that you belong to a certain generation. One that, let’s say, is particularly certain of its moral rectitude and doesn’t put much stock in the value of free speech and the exchange of ideas.
I would take that money from you. I’m way older than you imply.
And no, you did not get it. The invitation to apologize was not for his thoughts/opinion. It was for his words if they did not match his thoughts. It’s customary, in many cultures, that if you do something hurtful but don’t mean it, you apologize.
What did I said and then tried to spin about? I never included skin color. You bring it there. I’m not gonna sorry because you understand my sentences wrong.
I can’t verify it because there is no name or information about the person who did it in the news, but I assumed that it was a person who came to France later. After all, I don’t think there were many Muslims in France 100 years ago 😅 Even if he wasn’t, my thoughts still stand.
He was born in France, lived in Neuilly-sur-Seine, a wealthy neighborhood
He definitely had psychological disorders.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/12/03/paris-attack-what-we-know-about-armand-r-who-killed-one-and-injured-others-near-the-eiffel-tower_6308641_7.html
Maghreb immigration to France started in the 1960s, so three generations ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_France
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I never said that?
I literally quoted the article
And I’m saying is, they always use “psychological disorders” excuse.
If it was psyco, then it would never been same way, same words, same motivations.
This is not a “psychological disorder”. It is a regular radicalized Muslim.
So, not all Muslims? Because your previous comment states the opposite
In the same comment chain, I’ve said that “normal muslims” can become radicalized as well. We’re in welfare times right now. What will happen in WW3? What will happen when your country attacks to a muslim country? Can you guarentee those peaceful Muslims will still be peaceful?
France has been supporting Israel at first in October. Did you see millions of Muslims French killing other people?
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-12-01/israel-hamas-war-exposes-divisions-in-france
The name won’t tell you if they were born in France or not.
And you can still be French even if your family hasn’t been living in France for 4 generations.
I guess what you mean to say is “you can’t really be French if you’re not white”?
You’re still thinking “white/black/brown” debate. I’m talking about waaayy different subject. You know exactly what people I’m talking about. You are just trying to bend the situation.
What you said was bigoted af. Stop trying to spin this. Apologize or stop pretending you’re not a racist scumbag.
First of all, I’m a brown, middle-eastern person.
I was just trying to explain dangers of Islam. My country turned into shariah shithole in 20 years from secular.
“im Brown, I can’t be racist”
Lol
They said you’re anti non-white. I told them I’m not a white. That’s why I said “I’m brown”, dummy.
Bigoted means anti non-white? Interesting
hahahaha I’m just really laughing right now 😅 How can you extract that meaning from my words 🤷♂️
No you werent. You were making braod assumptions that are already proven to be wrong and you blame it on “Islam”, which implies “all Muslims”, despite there being evidence of psychiatric disorder in the suspect. Schizophrenia and other disorders with mania often express themselves in religious symbols. but if a psychatric ill person refers to Christianity would you say that this is Christianity for everyone? Probably not.
Also you should consider carefully, if you want to stir more anti-Muslim sentiment. When it comes to progroms, the people will not care if you are muslim, atheist, christian or jew. They’ll just see a “brown” person. You might get praise from the political right now, but they will not protect you, no matter how loudly you announce to be different from the other “brown people”.
The dangers of Islam are the assumptions I made. History will say am I was right or wrong.
IDC does anyone likes me or not. I’m person thinking exactly like this without pressure of “being different from other brown people”
Malaysia in a Muslim country (63%) with a Democracy Index of 7.30. Belgium is 7.64, Poland is 7.04.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Malaysia
Have you never asked yourself why so many people of this one religion turn out to have “psychological problems”? What are the chances of that statistically if, as you seem to suggest, religion has nothing to do with this?
Next, this person is trying to disassociate their skin color from their opinion, and in response you are insisting on essentializing them on the basis of biology. Have you considered how close this puts you to people you claim to abhor?
No, because this is horseshit. Muslims in Europe aren’t more violent than non muslims. They are more often subject to violence and discrimination by the white majority though. It is just that violence commited by muslims, or people claimed to be muslim is disproporitonately sensationalized by right wing media. Of course this is accompanied with white supremacists spurting desinformation and claiming every crime, where no information on nationality, skin colour or religion of the suspects is known, as being commited by muslims. Also violence against muslims is systematically underreported, but that would make for another dozens paragraphs.
You are wrong. I’m warning him, that this will be done to him, by the people whose agenda he is supporting, by making evidently false claims about the suspect and the treatment of the suspect. He is also blowing the right wing dogwhistle of violent muslims being “imported” to Europe. And the fascists whose position he is strengthening by doing this will not care. Just earlier this week an ex-muslim gay men of turkish origin wanted to join the German Nazi party AfD. He was met with calls to violence and having him deported, that led to him experiencing more racism and hostility in a few days, than in his entire life in Germany before. The fascist dogs will not accept him for blowing their whistle. They’ll tear him apart like everybody else if they get the chance to.
In terms of terrorism, the statistics say otherwise. In terms of general crime, the prison statistics do too. Of course, you will explain all this away as a product of systemic discrimination. But does it not bother you that immigrants of other religions, who also may also have darker skins, do so much better in their adopted homelands?
This is conspiracism. It’s impossible to argue with, by definition.
This common argument is interesting because the implication is that speaker is somehow intellectually superior than the person being addressed. We all have access to the same information, how come only you know how to avoid being indoctrinated? Are you saying I’m dumb? Go on, just come out and say, I won’t be offended.
Because that’s what underlies the argument. As it happens, and as you might guess, I personally am extremely well-informed, and almost entirely from mainstream professional journalists who are affiliated to boring organizations with serious reputations to protect. I am over-educated and I don’t go near sensationalist right-wing media, or social media. And in fact I don’t even vote for right-wing parties. How do you explain that? I think you should try a new tack: taking people’s opinions at face value rather than looking for manipulation, and listening to why people themselves say they think what they do.
Addendum. Downvoting is so much easier than finding a counter-argument, right? I will take it as proof that my points hit their mark. Good night.
You have my sympathy, but this does not meaningfully change anything.
Your comment was still bigoted af.
Regardless of color, I was saying that the west should be careful about Muslims. And I still say that. I don’t have any ulterior motives. Interpret it however you want.
There is no point in calling me a bigot without giving any reason.
That’s not what you said.
And even that is a pretty fucking backward thing to type.
You give me new reasons every comment.
If you don’t see this, you ought to re-evaluate.
Is it enough for me to say “you are right” to end this discussion? Because it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Because I don’t agree with most of your opinions and you don’t seem to be able to change mine.
At a guess, you seem to be talking to a member of a generation that never got contradicted during its childhood, that believes it has all the answers, that sees dissenters to its groupthink as social deviants who need be silenced. The Western enlightenment is yesterday’s news, we’ve moved on in the West! Well done for keeping your cool and staying polite.
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Stop defending terrorists dude
He’s not defending terrorists, he’s defending Muslims
Against a former Muslim, who fled a Muslim led country because of their Muslim laws. Telling them they’re a bigot for hating Islam is fucking condescending, white savior syndrome.
Who are you to tell others how to think? Asking them to apologize, are you serious? The level of self-righteousness and self-absorption in your attitude is worrying.
I’m not telling him what to think. I’m telling him he’s being a little coward, throwing the rock then hiding the hand.
So it’s up to him. Either he didn’t mean to be a horrible bigot, then he can apologize for it and we’re cool. Or he did, and then he has to own it.
I’m not telling him what to think. He’s free to be a bigot. God knows it’s a pretty widespread affliction. But he can’t deliberately engage in that kind of behavior and get away with equivocating hoping no one notices.
No, what is worrying is accepting that behavior in a public place. This is not, and will not be, the Nazi bar.
The whole concept of apologizing for opinions is just, well, wild. To me yes but I assure you to quite a lot of other people too. Not wanting to make this personal, but I would put money on a wager that you belong to a certain generation. One that, let’s say, is particularly certain of its moral rectitude and doesn’t put much stock in the value of free speech and the exchange of ideas.
I would take that money from you. I’m way older than you imply.
And no, you did not get it. The invitation to apologize was not for his thoughts/opinion. It was for his words if they did not match his thoughts. It’s customary, in many cultures, that if you do something hurtful but don’t mean it, you apologize.
It’s not hard.
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What did I said and then tried to spin about? I never included skin color. You bring it there. I’m not gonna sorry because you understand my sentences wrong.
Why are we taking about skin color? Why do you keep bringing up skin color?
Maybe just well since sorry understand very hard.
Alright. Let’s start from the beginning. I’m not a native speaker, so I may not understood you. Sorry about that lol 😅
So, what do you want me to sorry about?
Keep them to yourself.
Why should I listen to your directives? Are you authority here?
Ewwww.
‘Born in France in 1997 to Iranian parents’
So… yeah, you’re right.