Would he though? I guess this is up to whether one would consider “god hates jews” to be inciting hate or violence (§130 stgb) against jews. It might even depend on where this happens, in some very religious place it might incite people far more than somewhere more secular, as there’s absolutely no meaning to someone saying “god hates x” if you don’t believe in a god in the first place. So I think it’s debatable.
The “jews stole the land” sign in the background might be worse, though, the kid holding that (or more likely the parent that allowed them to hold it) would most likely be breaking the law.
I mean yea wbc wouldn’t fly here but that’s besides the point of whether that particular sign would be allowed? If the fucking afd is still allowed I have a hard time believing that sign would be a major issue. We have relatively strong anti hatespeech laws but they still have some requirements.
I accept that both Germany and the US have freedom of speech. The difference is that Germany will crack down on hate speech which is what this is. If allowed to remain just because you want to uphold free speech absolutism, then hate speech goes unchallenged and so it spreads, allowing more hate speech.
Yeah but who gets to draw that line though? I agree that this kind of speech is harmful, but if we leave it to the dipshits in Congress to decide what is and isn’t hate speech that kind of shit will be allowed and any speech against the oligarchy will be considered hate speech. I draw the line as a citizen by not giving them my time, but I feel like if you going the government the power to arrest folks over speech alone things will get real bad real fast.
A law that delineates what hate speech is and its consequences, limiting it to speech against sex, gender, orientation, race, ethnicity, faith and disability. Like sane countries do.
That’s all perfectly reasonable, I just don’t trust American lawmakers to do that. Then again, I don’t trust them to pass a budget or let the government stay open or fulfill other basic functions of their job, so……
In principle we are in agreement for sure. I guess we shouldn’t base potential policy based on the incompetence of our lawmakers, but ignoring their incompetence has risks of its own
I hate being an American. If I could pack my family up and leave for a better country I would.
Totally get what you mean. It might be easier for these protections to exist on the local or state level, but of course it’ll vary dramatically state to state.
“Some bad” as you say also includes Nazi marches and anti-vaccine protests. I just don’t think the bad is worth this stance. These aren’t mere annoyances, they are escalations from mere discontent to actual harmful rhetoric. Far too much in the US, Democrat Vs Republican bloodsports takes over from making people’s lives better. Instead every issue is a political battleground and nothing gets done.
Nobody’s paying attention until one of the Nazi losers runs over a counter protestor.
I’m not saying the information around the vaccines was well-communicated nor was it without problems. These are issues that should be discussed with a licensed medical professional and not treated like a political issue which it was.
The danger I referred to with anti-vaxxers wasn’t to do with COVID, it was the rampant spread of diseases in Hawaii which we’ve long had control over all because anti-vaxxers wanted to be proven correct and they sacrificed other people’s lives in that pursuit. They used their free speech to cause harm and death. In any sane country, they’d be on trial for manslaughter.
Their free speech was being able to chant their hateful rhetoric in public, display their imagery of hate groups/militias. To allow this march in Charlottesville to continue is implying that this speech is acceptable; this speech said by groups who think minorities are subhuman. They think they have a right to kill black people because they think all black people are criminals.
We’re talking about hate speech, not the riotous actions of Antifa and BLM which is also bad. We should understand why riots happen rather than just saying “look they’re setting cop cars on fire”. Well, why are they setting cop cars on fire? It’s a violent response to police brutality which is what sparked these protests and riots, i.e. the murder of George Floyd.
Once again, I didn’t bring up the COVID vaccines and that wasn’t what I was referring to in the beginning. My point about the COVID vaccine being politicised was in regards to politicians turning vaccine hesitancy into a political battleground. Rather than allowing people to ask questions to health care professionals and get an informed response, rhetoric was used to tell people what to think rather than ask questions. That’s the politicisation I was talking about.
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society’s practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them.
I would very much like it if some of that was restricted. I don’t think white supremacists or Christian Nationalists or nazis or any other group like that should have a voice or even be allowed to exist. 80 years ago we killed nazis and we should do it again.
Excuse me? In Germany that kid would straight up be arrested.
Would he though? I guess this is up to whether one would consider “god hates jews” to be inciting hate or violence (§130 stgb) against jews. It might even depend on where this happens, in some very religious place it might incite people far more than somewhere more secular, as there’s absolutely no meaning to someone saying “god hates x” if you don’t believe in a god in the first place. So I think it’s debatable.
The “jews stole the land” sign in the background might be worse, though, the kid holding that (or more likely the parent that allowed them to hold it) would most likely be breaking the law.
WBC are an open hate group. They aim to maximise their antagonism by doing things like picketing funerals with their dopey signs.
I mean yea wbc wouldn’t fly here but that’s besides the point of whether that particular sign would be allowed? If the fucking afd is still allowed I have a hard time believing that sign would be a major issue. We have relatively strong anti hatespeech laws but they still have some requirements.
You framed it through inciting hate, so I figured it’d be relevant that’s basically all WBC exist to do.
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I accept that both Germany and the US have freedom of speech. The difference is that Germany will crack down on hate speech which is what this is. If allowed to remain just because you want to uphold free speech absolutism, then hate speech goes unchallenged and so it spreads, allowing more hate speech.
Yeah but who gets to draw that line though? I agree that this kind of speech is harmful, but if we leave it to the dipshits in Congress to decide what is and isn’t hate speech that kind of shit will be allowed and any speech against the oligarchy will be considered hate speech. I draw the line as a citizen by not giving them my time, but I feel like if you going the government the power to arrest folks over speech alone things will get real bad real fast.
A law that delineates what hate speech is and its consequences, limiting it to speech against sex, gender, orientation, race, ethnicity, faith and disability. Like sane countries do.
That’s all perfectly reasonable, I just don’t trust American lawmakers to do that. Then again, I don’t trust them to pass a budget or let the government stay open or fulfill other basic functions of their job, so……
In principle we are in agreement for sure. I guess we shouldn’t base potential policy based on the incompetence of our lawmakers, but ignoring their incompetence has risks of its own
I hate being an American. If I could pack my family up and leave for a better country I would.
Totally get what you mean. It might be easier for these protections to exist on the local or state level, but of course it’ll vary dramatically state to state.
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“Some bad” as you say also includes Nazi marches and anti-vaccine protests. I just don’t think the bad is worth this stance. These aren’t mere annoyances, they are escalations from mere discontent to actual harmful rhetoric. Far too much in the US, Democrat Vs Republican bloodsports takes over from making people’s lives better. Instead every issue is a political battleground and nothing gets done.
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Nobody’s paying attention until one of the Nazi losers runs over a counter protestor.
I’m not saying the information around the vaccines was well-communicated nor was it without problems. These are issues that should be discussed with a licensed medical professional and not treated like a political issue which it was.
The danger I referred to with anti-vaxxers wasn’t to do with COVID, it was the rampant spread of diseases in Hawaii which we’ve long had control over all because anti-vaxxers wanted to be proven correct and they sacrificed other people’s lives in that pursuit. They used their free speech to cause harm and death. In any sane country, they’d be on trial for manslaughter.
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Their free speech was being able to chant their hateful rhetoric in public, display their imagery of hate groups/militias. To allow this march in Charlottesville to continue is implying that this speech is acceptable; this speech said by groups who think minorities are subhuman. They think they have a right to kill black people because they think all black people are criminals.
We’re talking about hate speech, not the riotous actions of Antifa and BLM which is also bad. We should understand why riots happen rather than just saying “look they’re setting cop cars on fire”. Well, why are they setting cop cars on fire? It’s a violent response to police brutality which is what sparked these protests and riots, i.e. the murder of George Floyd.
Once again, I didn’t bring up the COVID vaccines and that wasn’t what I was referring to in the beginning. My point about the COVID vaccine being politicised was in regards to politicians turning vaccine hesitancy into a political battleground. Rather than allowing people to ask questions to health care professionals and get an informed response, rhetoric was used to tell people what to think rather than ask questions. That’s the politicisation I was talking about.
You should look into the paradox of tolerance.
The paradox disappears when you stop considering tolerance to be a moral stance, and recognize it as a social contract.
Those who break the contractual agreements are not protected by contract’s provisions.
If nobody takes them seriously, why are they a problem?
Because even when you don’t take them seriously it’s not enjoyable to have them show up with signs like this at funerals for gay people, etc.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/03/21/westboro-baptist-church-pickets-funerals/6688951/
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I would very much like it if some of that was restricted. I don’t think white supremacists or Christian Nationalists or nazis or any other group like that should have a voice or even be allowed to exist. 80 years ago we killed nazis and we should do it again.
That’s a dangerous precedent, because it assumes that the people that hold power will largely agree with your views.
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It’s enough to have a rainbow book in a library in the land of the free