/u/mindseal and I recently began discussing intention and manifestation and the “mechanism” behind it. We’ve moved our conversation to this thread so that others can hopefully share their thoughts and experiences.
/u/mindseal and I recently began discussing intention and manifestation and the “mechanism” behind it. We’ve moved our conversation to this thread so that others can hopefully share their thoughts and experiences.
Well said and I can agree to all of that. This reminds me of something that’s been discussed on here and other subs previously, which is, reality doesn’t seem to have depth. It arises from awareness or the mind, but it is devoid of time or “space”, and it can change completely in an instant. I used to think that it has a depth that’s stored within a subconscious mind of some sort which acts as a blueprint, but even that is a concept of the mind and I allow it to be that way because that’s what I believe.
Reality simply arises and transforms according to will…on the “surface”.
So desire is something that exists as part of the human reality. “I am a human in this thing called a physical world which has X and Y cause and effect, and this human self desires more ideas to manifest into this physical world in a certain way etc…”
Originally commented by u/syncretik on 2019-07-14 16:45:13 (etqio87)
I think the relative reality has momentum, which is like your concept of depth. However, the momentum that it has depends on your overall (conscious, subconscious and unconscious) volitional state and therefore is tunable. But people never think of tuning something like that since they think the relative reality exists independently as part of the seemingly independent environment “out there.” (never mind that people often take the relative reality as ultimate, which is another mistake)
I don’t neglect the manifestational momentum. Sometimes I actually want some patterns to gain momentum because I don’t plan on micro-adjusting them every hour, so I want them to stay steady as a kind of “background.” But sometimes some of the steady features get outdated and need to be refreshed, and at that time their steadiness gets in the way of tuning them, so sometimes I have to downregulate some types of momentum to make some patterns more susceptible to quick tuning.
I don’t believe that we are humans ultimately. Ultimately I am beyond species. I have the karma of a human, which is to say, my volitional makeup and my manifestational momentum support a human realm right now. But I am not permanently welded to this kind of state for all time. So deep down I am mind, and I ultimately can act as anything inside anything (so a human in a human realm, or a human in a dragon realm, or a dragon in a human realm, or a dragon in a dragon realm and so on ad infinitum).
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2019-07-15 02:51:51 (etrkjrc)
Yes, I would say the momentum is only as influential or as strong as you make it. You can tune it by simply deciding rather than, say, going through a complex technique or magick ritual etc…Techniques and rituals are very helpful especially when someone is still new to this stuff, but once you develop an understanding and intuition of the maleability of reality you can tune it more readily i.e. by just deciding. This is something I’m currently playing with.
I’m with you on that. What I was also getting at is that “desire” as you experience it in the context of being a human is not the same thing as volition, it’s rather an experience. Volition is the act of deciding. I feel I need to distinguish these two things because “desire” is aim without volition and is more akin to yearning/craving. This is also my interpretation of Buddhism when it says desire is the cause of suffering. You could even say, you desire to the extent that you forget your volitional leverage.
Originally commented by u/syncretik on 2019-07-15 18:05:28 (ettg1d6)
Exactly.
But sometimes you may (optionally) want to deliberately limit your ability to decide if you notice you tend to decide haphazardly and carelessly at times (sometimes it only takes one bad decision to ruin something important), you may want to put a conceptual magickal “wall” between decisions and emanation so that only especially empowered decisions are allowed to affect something more than the body and the personal conscious mind. That’s where the value of ritual may show itself, but for this one doesn’t need ornate and elaborate rituals, but one just needs a special marker of some sort.
So I agree with you, but personally I have some degree of protection that would protect me from randomly deciding something that I think is “cool” on the spur of the moment and 1 hour later regret. In other words, I have deliberately somewhat constrained my ability to decide some things. I can still decide anything but if it’s really important I have more hoops to jump through, and that’s intentional.
And this has been liberating to me, because it means I can think freely, including having incredibly stupid thoughts, and I can think about what it would be like to decide some dumb things, and I never have to worry that my stupid thoughts will leak out and manifest at large.
It’s like having a manifestational scratch pad that’s not intended as a work of art. On a scratch pad I can try stuff out only to throw it away. If I like how something looks on my scratch pad, I may bring it out more into the “external” sphere.
Maybe if I could trust myself to never even need something like a scratch pad in the first place, I would simplify my internal mental setup even further, but until then I will keep my “wall.”
I completely agree. That’s a very important point.
Exactly!
That’s also why imagination and thinking do not necessarily change manifestation. Only thought with intent to manifest has that power, not just any old random thought. I can think “let it rain” and I can think “let it rain” and intend for the rain to be my relative reality, and those two thoughts will “sound” the same in my mind, but the meaning is completely different and only the second one will manifest while the first one is just me thinking. It’s like thinking “I will scratch my itch” but then refusing to move my arms. It’s just a thought. It doesn’t scratch anything by itself. But if I focused on the idea of my itch vanishing and I was serious and fully expected this to become viscerally realized with good justification (such as having subjective idealism as my worldview in addition to also using intent in that way), then my itch my indeed vanish.
So I completely agree. You’re pointing out a very important distinction, which is also subtle and can be easy to miss.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2019-07-16 15:14:31 (etw4vsu)
Why not just add an undo intent or reverse time magik? That would seem more interesting at times. Replay a certain quick minute scenario may be interesting.
Surely that would be possible in our unlimited potential.
Originally commented by u/therewasguy on 2019-07-18 17:24:48 (eu4253r)
Yes it’s a good point that you need a buffer to avoid manifesting unintentionally. Sometimes you decide you want something but after letting it set in for a day or two you might change your mind.
Thanks for adding an example to clarify this point.
Originally commented by u/syncretik on 2019-07-16 18:06:58 (etwd9r3)
I take this as a sort of elaboration on your post regarding the context and content of experience. Such that, as the ultimate builder of the stage not only are you reserving the right to what content appears on your stage, but also the right to further refine your stage in general. I feel that this could be a subtlety missed in the initial post. I feel it also heavily relates to your post about maintaining the mindset of a deity in that if something no longer serves you: cut it off.
I agree with this. When one cultivates a mentality that is beyond that of “I am this human here and this experience is happening to me.” the context of experience broadens to an unimaginable degree from the perspective just outlined. “Well if I am not only a human, to what extent am I?” This doesn’t eliminate the human you may have imagined yourself to be from the experience, quite the contrary. It flips perspective to I am the experience happening to this human. Even that can be seen as a limited perspective because you can continue expanding from there to “I am the experience happening to all humans” all the way out to “I am.”
What’s beyond the “I am” experience can be described as “I become” and at that point “I” can become limitless. Then again that seems a bit of a stretch. Almost like wiping the slate clean. As you’ve mentioned:
This quick tuning can be more desirable than starting from scratch. So in terms of context versus content this was hard to see exactly how to move one to the other. But with the idea of momentum it’s much easier to adjust things because they aren’t being expressed as one or the other, rather they are expressed as varying degrees of the same thing.
Originally commented by u/Scew on 2019-07-18 00:14:31 (eu1q9gu)
Very much so.
I do not identify with any experience, but I take responsibility for all my experience.
So I don’t ID with it, but I AM responsible for it.
That’s the key to freedom. I see many people attempt to cut off their identification as a way to remove themselves from responsibility, which is the opposite of what I am doing.
I detach my identify from the limited notions of myself so that I can expand my responsibility, not lower it. I am responsible for all of my experience and I am ultimately not limited in ways that a human would be limited by humanity/biology and whatever “human” things are ascribed to the humans. But of course there is the momentum inherent in having been humaning for so long too.
I agree. “Starting from scratch” would be a huge mental blow I think. I mean you have to start without the universe and separate light from dark and go through all the primitive steps, which is kind of pointless. I do want some kind of a universe, some stage, and it’s easier to fix than to remake from scratch.
Yea, that’s because in subjective idealism we hang onto our own meaning construction. Normally the person would imagine the meanings coming in from the outside. So a tree is already a tree by itself, through its own agency, and it just impresses its shape upon your sight and you’re helpless but to recognize it only as a tree that is a tree that is a tree, etc. This is what it means to take appearances as informative. But over here we take appearances as suggestive rather than informative.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2019-07-18 04:28:36 (eu2e3r2)