Mess with the bull, get the horns. I get it. I had sympathy for Hamas and thought a two state solution would work until October 7th.
Let’s remember how we got to the current state of play: orchestrated mass shootings of civilians along with kidnapping, mutilation, and rape.
Lets also remember it’s only within the last generation or two that things like this could happen and everyone knows about it. In the recent past, they didn’t even have to bother with things like reasons.
However, do you think after 9/11 anyone wanted to hear about a country for Al Qaeda? They wouldn’t even let American Muslims build a new Mosque for a while, let alone give statehood for Al Qaeda.
And if you do, why aren’t they allowed to attack an invading country?
And I grew up hearing about car bombings there. Why would you think the one thing that has been driving this conflict for longer than you’ve been alive isn’t relevant?
The two state solution requires Israel to recognise Palestine and deal in good faith, something they have never done.
Hamas is the consequence of decades of this.
Again if Israel wanted a 2 state solution they could have had it in the 1970’s. The fact that there are still Israeli “settlers” actively displacing Palestinians kinda speaks to the fact that even though Hamas are terrorists and employing methods that harm everyone, Israel has a disproportionate response and has NEVER even kept their word that was given to the Palestinians.
Okay well that cannot be changed now. What’s the way forward? You’re saying a two state solution.
Hamas will not agree. Palestinian people might. But most
of them support Hamas, especially in Gaza where Hamas has like 90% support, whose goal is to eradicate Israel.
In furtherance of that goal they’ve launched tens of thousands of rockets at Israel from inside Gaza, a tiny little area not much bigger than a medium sized American city, until October 7th. I have zero sympathy for Hamas.
I have a little sympathy for Gazans who support Hamas out of necessity.
In this war so far Israel has killed 1% of the population of Gaza and 0.004% of Palestinians overall. That’s not a genocide.
I think they went too far and don’t support their current tact, but I think Israel has every right to bomb the Gazan tunnels out of existence and to capture *or kill anyone giving aid to Hamas.
I want the bombing and death to stop. Hamas won’t do that, though. So it continues.
And why do you think that Hamas has the support ot does?
If a government consistently took land from my people the way that it has happened in Palestine, I probably would be radicalised as well.
If Israel wants to stop shit they are going to have to eat crow, and the same goes for Hamas.
Neither side is trustworthy.
When you start talking about deaths with full percentage points of a population you kind of lose the moral high ground. Why do you think they’re killing those people? How many Israelis have died due to those rockets?
Hamas are terrorists, but the Israeli gov. is conducting a genocide with “police action” as a shoddy cover.
What is the evidence for a genocide? There are a proportionately 150 times fewer civilian casualties than in the US war in Iraq. 0.004% of all Palestinian people.
I support a two state solution and thought it was possible, maybe naively, until October 7.
I’m not looking for the moral high ground. I’m looking at it from the standpoint that people have to live in organized societies and people need to lead those places.
Certainly Israel has the capability right now to carpet bomb all of Gaza and all of the West Bank into a pile of small rocks.
I think you’re probably a monster. You want the US to abandon its ally, the only democracy in the middleeast, albiest a flawed one, same as America’s. None of the other states in the region have the capability to grant long term human rights because they are all authoritarian theocracies. Chief among them is Iran, with 100,000,000 people, whose long term foreign policy is to destroy Israel (and America for that matter) and rid the Levant and Sinai of Jews and Christians.
That war would kill tens of millions of civilians.
Less than 25,000 people have died in the Israel Hamas war.
You’re solution to the trolly problem is apparently to screech loudly and do nothing?
The US should not be allies with genocidal dictators. How is that a fucking difficult concept?!
If you seriously don’t understand why people are upset, you actually ARE a monster, unable to understand how tens of thousands of deaths in response to hundreds is an EVIL ACTION.
Israel wants a war even more than Hamas. They literally funded Hamas. They established this problem and then allowed the attack to happen.
People are asking the US to stop giving money to the psychopaths who want to hit the accelerator on your stupid trolley problem, but you cannot understand that, because you do not understand humans at a larger scale.
Ah yes, a few civilians dying gives you permission to commit a FUCKING GENOCIDE.
Grow the fuck up and realize that the side which kills more innocents by the end of it IS NOT the good guys. Israel has killed many times more civilians.
Just because it’s a conflict the US is involved in does not mean EITHER side is good. They’re both despicable and neither deserves a dime of US (offensive) aid.
I agree they are both despicable, might even agree Israel doesn’t deserve the aid, but they do need the aid and they should get it, as an American, that’s my view. It’s complicated but I’ve been taking at stab here in the comments at explaining it. Willing to be convinced I’m wrong.
I find that October 7 is good cassus belli to kill every member of Hamas and to completely destroy the extensive tunnel warfare infrastructure underneath Gaza City…
My math says that, in proportion to the population, there are 150 times fewer Palestinian civilian casualties than in the US war in Iraq, that the dead so far represents 1% of Gaza and 0.004% of Palestinians overall.
My understanding is that there is no military operations going on in the West Bank similar to what is happening in Gaza and that the vast majority of Palestinians live in the West Bank, not Gaza.
I also think Israel, flawed as it is, is the only meaningful chance for lasting human rights in the middle east anywhere on the horizon.
Stop listening to propaganda and open your eyes. There IS the military on the west bank… they just ran over a teenager. You are basing your opinion on ignorance.
I’m aware it is militarized. I said it was not similar to what’s happening right now in Gaza. There is not a tunnel network under the West Bank as far as I know that they have to hit with bunker busters.
The prime minister has an axe to grind with Palestine because his own brother was killed in an operation ~50 years ago. He’s stated many times that he has no intention of any kind of peace and he’s only using a tragedy to take revenge. It’s no different than the u.s. going into Afghanistan after 9/11 and then using that as a foothold when they invaded Iraq under dubious circumstances. It’s completely indefensible.
I just can’t fathom how monstrous and dumb people are who support what Israel is doing
I’ve known plenty of “dumb” people who weren’t genocidal. It’s less an indication of intelligence and more an indication of an evil soul.
Can you understand Israel’s position without supporting it? I do.
Whats their position? We want your land so we are going to kill you for it?
That plus “we’re God’s chosen people” so killing civilians is A-OK.
Wasn’t Israel attacked in October 7th?
Hasn’t Israel taken land without permission for decades?
So Israel deserves terrorist attacks because of trespassing?
Well, if people can’t get justice, they will take matters into their own hand.
You don’t shit in your water supply and wonder why disease runs rampant.
It might not be right, but it’s definitely predictable.
Mess with the bull, get the horns. I get it. I had sympathy for Hamas and thought a two state solution would work until October 7th.
Let’s remember how we got to the current state of play: orchestrated mass shootings of civilians along with kidnapping, mutilation, and rape.
Lets also remember it’s only within the last generation or two that things like this could happen and everyone knows about it. In the recent past, they didn’t even have to bother with things like reasons.
However, do you think after 9/11 anyone wanted to hear about a country for Al Qaeda? They wouldn’t even let American Muslims build a new Mosque for a while, let alone give statehood for Al Qaeda.
Do you recognise that Palestine is a state?
And if you do, why aren’t they allowed to attack an invading country?
And I grew up hearing about car bombings there. Why would you think the one thing that has been driving this conflict for longer than you’ve been alive isn’t relevant?
The two state solution requires Israel to recognise Palestine and deal in good faith, something they have never done.
Hamas is the consequence of decades of this.
Again if Israel wanted a 2 state solution they could have had it in the 1970’s. The fact that there are still Israeli “settlers” actively displacing Palestinians kinda speaks to the fact that even though Hamas are terrorists and employing methods that harm everyone, Israel has a disproportionate response and has NEVER even kept their word that was given to the Palestinians.
Are you a Zionist?
Okay well that cannot be changed now. What’s the way forward? You’re saying a two state solution.
Hamas will not agree. Palestinian people might. But most of them support Hamas, especially in Gaza where Hamas has like 90% support, whose goal is to eradicate Israel.
In furtherance of that goal they’ve launched tens of thousands of rockets at Israel from inside Gaza, a tiny little area not much bigger than a medium sized American city, until October 7th. I have zero sympathy for Hamas.
I have a little sympathy for Gazans who support Hamas out of necessity.
In this war so far Israel has killed 1% of the population of Gaza and 0.004% of Palestinians overall. That’s not a genocide.
I think they went too far and don’t support their current tact, but I think Israel has every right to bomb the Gazan tunnels out of existence and to capture *or kill anyone giving aid to Hamas.
I want the bombing and death to stop. Hamas won’t do that, though. So it continues.
E: or not and
And why do you think that Hamas has the support ot does?
If a government consistently took land from my people the way that it has happened in Palestine, I probably would be radicalised as well.
If Israel wants to stop shit they are going to have to eat crow, and the same goes for Hamas.
Neither side is trustworthy.
When you start talking about deaths with full percentage points of a population you kind of lose the moral high ground. Why do you think they’re killing those people? How many Israelis have died due to those rockets?
Hamas are terrorists, but the Israeli gov. is conducting a genocide with “police action” as a shoddy cover.
What is the evidence for a genocide? There are a proportionately 150 times fewer civilian casualties than in the US war in Iraq. 0.004% of all Palestinian people.
I support a two state solution and thought it was possible, maybe naively, until October 7.
I’m not looking for the moral high ground. I’m looking at it from the standpoint that people have to live in organized societies and people need to lead those places.
Certainly Israel has the capability right now to carpet bomb all of Gaza and all of the West Bank into a pile of small rocks.
If it’s a genocide, why aren’t they?
1 in a 100 people sounds like fucking genocide.
If the Israeli gov. wanted a 2 state solution they could have had it sometime in the 1970’s
You’re a fucking monster
I think you’re probably a monster. You want the US to abandon its ally, the only democracy in the middleeast, albiest a flawed one, same as America’s. None of the other states in the region have the capability to grant long term human rights because they are all authoritarian theocracies. Chief among them is Iran, with 100,000,000 people, whose long term foreign policy is to destroy Israel (and America for that matter) and rid the Levant and Sinai of Jews and Christians.
That war would kill tens of millions of civilians.
Less than 25,000 people have died in the Israel Hamas war.
You’re solution to the trolly problem is apparently to screech loudly and do nothing?
The US should not be allies with genocidal dictators. How is that a fucking difficult concept?!
If you seriously don’t understand why people are upset, you actually ARE a monster, unable to understand how tens of thousands of deaths in response to hundreds is an EVIL ACTION.
Israel wants a war even more than Hamas. They literally funded Hamas. They established this problem and then allowed the attack to happen.
People are asking the US to stop giving money to the psychopaths who want to hit the accelerator on your stupid trolley problem, but you cannot understand that, because you do not understand humans at a larger scale.
Ah yes, a few civilians dying gives you permission to commit a FUCKING GENOCIDE.
Grow the fuck up and realize that the side which kills more innocents by the end of it IS NOT the good guys. Israel has killed many times more civilians.
Just because it’s a conflict the US is involved in does not mean EITHER side is good. They’re both despicable and neither deserves a dime of US (offensive) aid.
I agree they are both despicable, might even agree Israel doesn’t deserve the aid, but they do need the aid and they should get it, as an American, that’s my view. It’s complicated but I’ve been taking at stab here in the comments at explaining it. Willing to be convinced I’m wrong.
I find that October 7 is good cassus belli to kill every member of Hamas and to completely destroy the extensive tunnel warfare infrastructure underneath Gaza City…
My math says that, in proportion to the population, there are 150 times fewer Palestinian civilian casualties than in the US war in Iraq, that the dead so far represents 1% of Gaza and 0.004% of Palestinians overall.
My understanding is that there is no military operations going on in the West Bank similar to what is happening in Gaza and that the vast majority of Palestinians live in the West Bank, not Gaza.
I also think Israel, flawed as it is, is the only meaningful chance for lasting human rights in the middle east anywhere on the horizon.
For your convenience:
https://imeu.org/article/plan-dalet
https://forward.com/news/470923/israel-land-conquest-1967-occupation-six-day-war-plans/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law#Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_prisoners_in_Israel
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/“treated-animals”-palestinian-children-face-inhumane-treatment-israeli-run-prisons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests
https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/12/17/born-without-civil-rights/israels-use-draconian-military-orders-repress
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Cablegram_from_the_Secretary-General_of_the_League_of_Arab_States_to_the_Secretary-General_of_the_United_Nations
https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/palestinian-arab-congresses
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
https://www.btselem.org/apartheid
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/israel-palestine-one-state-solution
https://mondoweiss.net/2018/01/examining-myths-israel/
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/28/israel-palestine-history-peace
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/16/why-israel-allies-explainer
Stop listening to propaganda and open your eyes. There IS the military on the west bank… they just ran over a teenager. You are basing your opinion on ignorance.
I’m aware it is militarized. I said it was not similar to what’s happening right now in Gaza. There is not a tunnel network under the West Bank as far as I know that they have to hit with bunker busters.
They also get attacked by terrorists so frequently they have given a catchy name to their anti missile defense infrastructure.
The prime minister has an axe to grind with Palestine because his own brother was killed in an operation ~50 years ago. He’s stated many times that he has no intention of any kind of peace and he’s only using a tragedy to take revenge. It’s no different than the u.s. going into Afghanistan after 9/11 and then using that as a foothold when they invaded Iraq under dubious circumstances. It’s completely indefensible.
Ah - wonderful!
I’ve not heard a remotely defensible explanation for the ongoing genocidal land grab, but I do wonder what could conceivably justify it.