5 bucks says it is either a half remembered article from an economist who works for the student loan people wailing about theoretical inflation or they knew someone with a degree that doesn’t pay well and want to punish them for trying.
A lot of it is the “fuck you, got mine” mentality too… which goes along with the “they’re just assholes”. Graduated with no debt because they have well off parents but down play the role that possibly could have had. Obviously people who need a loan to get through college nowadays are just lazy right?
Or “you could have just gone to a cheaper college, this one’s $10,000/year tuition” ignoring that just because you’re in college doesn’t mean you don’t also need to pay rent and buy other necessities… $10,000 is a lot of money for a young adult. That’s half their yearly post-tax income if they could work full time hours at $15/hour.
Let me preface this by saying I’m open to being wrong and that I don’t expect others to share these views. I still owe on my student loans and am not excited to continue paying them. Also, I’m listing several reasons here, so even if someone pokes holes in one or two, I’d encourage to see if there are still one or two solid reasons to be opposed to the specific method of student loan payoffs that was ruled unconstitutional.
From the beginning, the Biden administration knew this wasn’t a constitutional way of paying off loans. Their hope was that no one would have standing to bring a suit. In general, I’m not in favor of doing unconstitutional things in the hope we can get away with it. That’s a door I don’t want the Republicans to have access to either.
This program was initially proposed as COVID relief but does nothing to help those most impacted by COVID. It DOES however, help a huge class of potential voters. From the start this hasn’t been about helping people, it’s been about gaining votes.
Paying off existing student loans is an expensive measure that does nothing to address what got us here in the first place. We are paying too much for degrees that don’t provide the benefits and opportunities they once did, and that’s not going to change if we cancel existing debt. All it does is out us right back here in 5-10 years.
There’s a right way to go about this stuff. Congress should be the ones doing this, not the president. Unfortunately we have a congress that would much rather assign their work out to other people to take care of and that’s part of what has gotten us in the mess we’re in in the first place. I prefer a weak Office of the President, as we don’t always have who we want in that office. Sometimes this means things move slower than we’d like, but I’d rather that than letting whoever is president at the time take huge sweeping actions unchecked by Congress and the Judicial Branch.
Now, just to piss off anyone who wasn’t already upset with me, I think Trump is a crook and I hope he goes to jail for a long time.
Anyway, I’m not trying to start a fight, just give some reasons why I personally am happy with this SC decision.
I’m also against loan forgiveness and agree with all your points. Especially number 3. I want to add emphasis that I think forgiveness in this way will actually make the problem worse.
Yes, it would be a huge help to those who had debts forgiven. However if forgiven once, more people will be likely to go to price-gouging colleges, sign up for the huge student loans, and think there is some chance it will be forgiven later. Colleges will continue to raise tuition because people keep paying it.
We need to address the tuition cost problem. Colleges are out of control. Until we fix that, anything else will encourage them to keep going. Another way of looking at $500bn of loans forgiven… That’s $500bn in the colleges pockets that they get to keep after tripling their tuition.
I think college is a great thing and important to be accessible. We need to make it cheap enough that students can afford it and not come out of it with $80k+ in loans (I as did).
Not true. The executive branch has the power to not collect a tax or debt. Don’t like it? Then vote for a law change. Good luck with that since this has been the case since before the US even started. In fact what is now the UK waived the land tax on the colonies. It says a lot that to even get standing they had to legally force a corporation to claim damages.
Even if true who cares? Governments serve the population ideally. Would you rather they didn’t give people what they want so things are “fair”? Plus I seriously doubt you were protesting when the banks were bailed out, or the airlines, or the farms, or the banks, or the “small” business owners, or the insurance companies, or the car makers.
When a patient is bleading out you don’t give them a lecture on the importance of safety. You stop the bleeding. ER doctors are not useless because they don’t address root causes.
Again. Congress authorizes the collection of taxes and debt they do not collect. Giving permission is not the same as an order to perform.
You know I used to be a test engineer which means I was lied to about 30% of my day by PMs who wanted to push things out. A trick I figured out pretty early. When someone is telling me the truth they only need one reason. When they know that they are wrong they give me multiple weak arguments.
The mentioned part of that act provides the provides the president (via the Secretary of Education) with the authority to:
“…modify, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand, however acquired, including any equity or any right of redemption.”
But that quote is taken out of the broader context of the act. The preamble to that section limits the authority to operating within the scope of the statute.
It means that Congress can authorize a loan forgiveness program, (see Public Service Loan Forgiveness, Teacher Loan Forgiveness or the Total and Permanent Disability Discharge), which then means the U.S. Secretary of Education can forgive student loans as authorized under the terms of those programs.
Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. The Supreme Court unanimously decided that all the way back in 2001 in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc. when they put limits on what exactly Congress can delegate to the executive branch.
Also, the part of the Act referred to in the preamble is Part B of Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965, which applies only to loans made under the Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) program.
There is similar language in Part E for the Federal Perkins Loan program. There is no similar language for Part D for the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan (Direct Loan) program.
I was protesting when the banks were bailed out. I was also protesting the business “loans” being forgiven. Attacking someone’s argument by building a strawman of who you want the others reading this to believe they are is a logical fallacy.
My point is exactly this. We’re treating a ruptured appendix with Advil.
First off, this isn’t a tax going uncollected. The president can’t say 'This thing I want to do is going to now be considered a tax so I can now not collect it." At this point, it’s clear you’re not engaging in good faith, as you’re falling straight back to using character attacks rather than arguments, so have a nice day.
First off it is. It is exactly a tax. Just because the US government has tried to hire tax farmers to enforce it doesn’t make it not a tax. The president doesn’t have to say anything. There is no mechanism in the legal system to force a president to collect a tax.
And at this point it is clear that you are trying to substitute virtue signaling for economic policy. And yes I seriously doubt you protested any other form of government bailout. I would wish you good day but I care about the truth.
Doesn’t address the root problem, in fact it makes the root problem worse. It’s just a one time payout to a lucky group of millenials who happen to qualify at the moment.
Also, it primarily benefits wealthier people who got college degrees. That money would do a lot more good going to poorer people.
Fine. I’ll bite.
Why are you against student loan forgiveness?
5 bucks says it is either a half remembered article from an economist who works for the student loan people wailing about theoretical inflation or they knew someone with a degree that doesn’t pay well and want to punish them for trying.
It is always one or the other.
It doesn’t have to even be that complicated… I think they’re just assholes
A lot of it is the “fuck you, got mine” mentality too… which goes along with the “they’re just assholes”. Graduated with no debt because they have well off parents but down play the role that possibly could have had. Obviously people who need a loan to get through college nowadays are just lazy right?
Or “you could have just gone to a cheaper college, this one’s $10,000/year tuition” ignoring that just because you’re in college doesn’t mean you don’t also need to pay rent and buy other necessities… $10,000 is a lot of money for a young adult. That’s half their yearly post-tax income if they could work full time hours at $15/hour.
Don’t forget that’s 10,000 x 4 just for undergrad
My state college tuition 12 years ago was about 10k. Now it’s closer to 30k with no aid.
Let me preface this by saying I’m open to being wrong and that I don’t expect others to share these views. I still owe on my student loans and am not excited to continue paying them. Also, I’m listing several reasons here, so even if someone pokes holes in one or two, I’d encourage to see if there are still one or two solid reasons to be opposed to the specific method of student loan payoffs that was ruled unconstitutional.
From the beginning, the Biden administration knew this wasn’t a constitutional way of paying off loans. Their hope was that no one would have standing to bring a suit. In general, I’m not in favor of doing unconstitutional things in the hope we can get away with it. That’s a door I don’t want the Republicans to have access to either.
This program was initially proposed as COVID relief but does nothing to help those most impacted by COVID. It DOES however, help a huge class of potential voters. From the start this hasn’t been about helping people, it’s been about gaining votes.
Paying off existing student loans is an expensive measure that does nothing to address what got us here in the first place. We are paying too much for degrees that don’t provide the benefits and opportunities they once did, and that’s not going to change if we cancel existing debt. All it does is out us right back here in 5-10 years.
There’s a right way to go about this stuff. Congress should be the ones doing this, not the president. Unfortunately we have a congress that would much rather assign their work out to other people to take care of and that’s part of what has gotten us in the mess we’re in in the first place. I prefer a weak Office of the President, as we don’t always have who we want in that office. Sometimes this means things move slower than we’d like, but I’d rather that than letting whoever is president at the time take huge sweeping actions unchecked by Congress and the Judicial Branch.
Now, just to piss off anyone who wasn’t already upset with me, I think Trump is a crook and I hope he goes to jail for a long time.
Anyway, I’m not trying to start a fight, just give some reasons why I personally am happy with this SC decision.
I’m also against loan forgiveness and agree with all your points. Especially number 3. I want to add emphasis that I think forgiveness in this way will actually make the problem worse.
Yes, it would be a huge help to those who had debts forgiven. However if forgiven once, more people will be likely to go to price-gouging colleges, sign up for the huge student loans, and think there is some chance it will be forgiven later. Colleges will continue to raise tuition because people keep paying it.
We need to address the tuition cost problem. Colleges are out of control. Until we fix that, anything else will encourage them to keep going. Another way of looking at $500bn of loans forgiven… That’s $500bn in the colleges pockets that they get to keep after tripling their tuition.
I think college is a great thing and important to be accessible. We need to make it cheap enough that students can afford it and not come out of it with $80k+ in loans (I as did).
Not true. The executive branch has the power to not collect a tax or debt. Don’t like it? Then vote for a law change. Good luck with that since this has been the case since before the US even started. In fact what is now the UK waived the land tax on the colonies. It says a lot that to even get standing they had to legally force a corporation to claim damages.
Even if true who cares? Governments serve the population ideally. Would you rather they didn’t give people what they want so things are “fair”? Plus I seriously doubt you were protesting when the banks were bailed out, or the airlines, or the farms, or the banks, or the “small” business owners, or the insurance companies, or the car makers.
When a patient is bleading out you don’t give them a lecture on the importance of safety. You stop the bleeding. ER doctors are not useless because they don’t address root causes.
Again. Congress authorizes the collection of taxes and debt they do not collect. Giving permission is not the same as an order to perform.
You know I used to be a test engineer which means I was lied to about 30% of my day by PMs who wanted to push things out. A trick I figured out pretty early. When someone is telling me the truth they only need one reason. When they know that they are wrong they give me multiple weak arguments.
None of what you said is accurate or good arguments.
The people saying that the President is allowed to wipe out student loans broadly are based on a misreading of the Higher Education Act of 1965 at 20 USC 1082(a)(6) . https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title31/subtitle2/chapter13&edition=prelim
The mentioned part of that act provides the provides the president (via the Secretary of Education) with the authority to:
“…modify, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand, however acquired, including any equity or any right of redemption.”
But that quote is taken out of the broader context of the act. The preamble to that section limits the authority to operating within the scope of the statute.
It means that Congress can authorize a loan forgiveness program, (see Public Service Loan Forgiveness, Teacher Loan Forgiveness or the Total and Permanent Disability Discharge), which then means the U.S. Secretary of Education can forgive student loans as authorized under the terms of those programs.
Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. The Supreme Court unanimously decided that all the way back in 2001 in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc. when they put limits on what exactly Congress can delegate to the executive branch.
Also, the part of the Act referred to in the preamble is Part B of Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965, which applies only to loans made under the Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) program.
There is similar language in Part E for the Federal Perkins Loan program. There is no similar language for Part D for the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan (Direct Loan) program.
I was protesting when the banks were bailed out. I was also protesting the business “loans” being forgiven. Attacking someone’s argument by building a strawman of who you want the others reading this to believe they are is a logical fallacy.
My point is exactly this. We’re treating a ruptured appendix with Advil.
See point 1.
Still wrong. All enforcement of a tax is on the executive. Congress can not force the executive branch to enforce a tax.
Doubt.
I had my appendix out. OTC painkillers were an active part of the process. Sorry your analogy disproves your point.
I won’t. Address it.
First off, this isn’t a tax going uncollected. The president can’t say 'This thing I want to do is going to now be considered a tax so I can now not collect it." At this point, it’s clear you’re not engaging in good faith, as you’re falling straight back to using character attacks rather than arguments, so have a nice day.
First off it is. It is exactly a tax. Just because the US government has tried to hire tax farmers to enforce it doesn’t make it not a tax. The president doesn’t have to say anything. There is no mechanism in the legal system to force a president to collect a tax.
And at this point it is clear that you are trying to substitute virtue signaling for economic policy. And yes I seriously doubt you protested any other form of government bailout. I would wish you good day but I care about the truth.
Doesn’t address the root problem, in fact it makes the root problem worse. It’s just a one time payout to a lucky group of millenials who happen to qualify at the moment.
Also, it primarily benefits wealthier people who got college degrees. That money would do a lot more good going to poorer people.