Unless class conciousness forms in America tearing the system down would result in a mad max hell scape and probably the end of of the human race because of the acceleration to climate change.
If anything climate change would decelerate from the collapse of the system though. I mean, you saw that air quality, pollution indexes, etc have all improved during the lockdowns right? There’s a reason pollution is used to measure how the economy is doing in countries that aren’t honest about it (where usually less emissions = worse economy)
Don’t need to throw out the whole system. Even just ranked choice voting and getting rid of the electoral college would massively improve the quality of our representation.
Yes, really. Fuck’s sake. What, you think Trump is using his entire net worth of negative 500 million to bribe a massive group of actors sworn to secrecy and change all the GOP primary outcomes in his favor?
But it’s not a system propped up by the voters when the system is specifically designed to favor two options and make voting a third option hard or undesirable despite said third option being better representative of your values.
I hardly doubt a majority of people would like eother Biden or Trump, they just vote the one who they don’t want to lose to the other.
Yeah. God help us. But tearing down the system, while temporarily satisfying as millions die, will not be the solution we want it to be. What emerges will have the exact same problem as long as it is democratic and the American electorate is not changed.
this like saying eating shit is a better option than starving. One is just slower, but it’s still going to kill you.
Are you right that biden is better than trump? yes. Are you wrong in that, that is an argument for Biden? absolutely fucking wrong. that is an argument for-not-trump… of which there are hundreds of millions of people in the US that are both not-trump and eligible to president. there are at least “50 other democrats”, per Your-Dear-Leader-Himself that can absolutely beat trump.
the question isn’t if Biden is better than trump- we’re still in the primaries. The question is, is Biden the best possible democrat candidate. to which that’s an emphatic “Lol, no.”
There are numerous options, any one of which- with Biden’s support- prove to be a far more popular and viable candidate. or did you think “Blue no matter who” only applies to centrists? Warren, Klobechar, AOC, Buttigieg, Even bernie, Phillips. Newsom. Probably, any candidate more progressive than a stick in the mud would have a better chance than Biden winning.
the question isn’t if Biden is better than trump- we’re still in the primaries. The question is, is Biden the best possible democrat candidate. to which that’s an emphatic “Lol, no.”
Is he the Democrat candidate with the best chance of beating Trump, is the important question.
Regarding the importance of name recognition and the low-information status of most of the electorate, that is a ‘sadly, yes’ moment.
Regarding the importance of name recognition and the low-information status of most of the electorate, that is a ‘sadly, yes’ moment.
Regarding how many of the Democratic base have said “We’d like somebody else”… that is actually quite dubious a statement. Polls have consistently ranged between 66-85% saying they want somebody other than Biden. And his popularity is only shrinking. at best, any election with biden and trump as the two candidates are going to be nail biters, with DNC peeps having to work two, three times as hard to get the vote out than virtually any other candidate they could pick.
Polls have consistently ranged between 66-85% saying they want somebody other than Biden.
And yet when specifics come up, there is no consensus candidate other than Biden.
It’s how he won the last primary. He was the second-choice of a larger and more divided pool of other candidates - we’ve always wanted someone other than Biden. The issue is that we can’t agree on who that would be.
And his popularity is only shrinking. at best, any election with biden and trump as the two candidates are going to be nail biters, with DNC peeps having to work two, three times as hard to get the vote out than virtually any other candidate they could pick.
I really think you’re underestimating the advantages of name recognition and incumbency.
if Biden were to support and go to bat for any other candidate his name recognition and incumbency could be made to work for them.
Incumbency and name recognition don’t work like that, as a great many outgoing politicians who endorse and campaign for their picked protégé find out.
That he doesn’t do that… is a matter of his own ego.
Influenced by his ego, sure, but not simply a matter of ego. I would have loved for Biden to step down as a one-term president, but I also understand that there is a matter of political calculation in this.
How is that relevant to the argument we were having? We were discussing Biden’s electability and whether incumbency and name recognition are linked to his running for president, not whether the DNC can govern, or what problem(?) wasn’t solved in the past 7 years.
Criticise Biden all you want. Just recognize despite your criticism, he is a better option than Trump in every way (and no, there is no third option).
If these are the only two options in our current system
1.) god help us
2.) let’s tear down the system
Unless class conciousness forms in America tearing the system down would result in a mad max hell scape and probably the end of of the human race because of the acceleration to climate change.
If anything climate change would decelerate from the collapse of the system though. I mean, you saw that air quality, pollution indexes, etc have all improved during the lockdowns right? There’s a reason pollution is used to measure how the economy is doing in countries that aren’t honest about it (where usually less emissions = worse economy)
They don’t care. The Great Satan would be dead. That’s all that matters to them.
Don’t need to throw out the whole system. Even just ranked choice voting and getting rid of the electoral college would massively improve the quality of our representation.
It’s the only two options in the system because the American people are not as left-wing as your average fucking Lemmy user.
Even as someone far more right than the average lemmy user, an 80 year old and an almost 80 year old being the only two options is absurd.
You don’t have to like it. It’s the reality right now though.
Absurd, yes, but an absurdity that is endorsed, unfortunately, by the voters.
Not really.
Yes, really. Fuck’s sake. What, you think Trump is using his entire net worth of negative 500 million to bribe a massive group of actors sworn to secrecy and change all the GOP primary outcomes in his favor?
No. I wasn’t even referring to primaries.
But it’s not a system propped up by the voters when the system is specifically designed to favor two options and make voting a third option hard or undesirable despite said third option being better representative of your values.
I hardly doubt a majority of people would like eother Biden or Trump, they just vote the one who they don’t want to lose to the other.
What third option is better representative of the majority or even a plurality of the views of the American people?
God help us
Yeah. God help us. But tearing down the system, while temporarily satisfying as millions die, will not be the solution we want it to be. What emerges will have the exact same problem as long as it is democratic and the American electorate is not changed.
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Exhibit A
this like saying eating shit is a better option than starving. One is just slower, but it’s still going to kill you.
Are you right that biden is better than trump? yes. Are you wrong in that, that is an argument for Biden? absolutely fucking wrong. that is an argument for-not-trump… of which there are hundreds of millions of people in the US that are both not-trump and eligible to president. there are at least “50 other democrats”, per Your-Dear-Leader-Himself that can absolutely beat trump.
the question isn’t if Biden is better than trump- we’re still in the primaries. The question is, is Biden the best possible democrat candidate. to which that’s an emphatic “Lol, no.”
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I seriously hope you’ve got better and more persuasive arguments than insults.
because, you know. I take insults to mean you don’t. Also, calling people stupid is… literally right out of Trump’s playbook.
I mean so who’s better than biden at this stage? I wish there was but I can’t think of anyone
We could have had Bernie but the dems didn’t want some one too progressive as president.
then that is a failure of your imagination.
There are numerous options, any one of which- with Biden’s support- prove to be a far more popular and viable candidate. or did you think “Blue no matter who” only applies to centrists? Warren, Klobechar, AOC, Buttigieg, Even bernie, Phillips. Newsom. Probably, any candidate more progressive than a stick in the mud would have a better chance than Biden winning.
Is he the Democrat candidate with the best chance of beating Trump, is the important question.
Regarding the importance of name recognition and the low-information status of most of the electorate, that is a ‘sadly, yes’ moment.
He’s one of the very few people on the national stage and in such a possible position that are as unpopular as Trump or even worse, so… probably no(?)
Regarding how many of the Democratic base have said “We’d like somebody else”… that is actually quite dubious a statement. Polls have consistently ranged between 66-85% saying they want somebody other than Biden. And his popularity is only shrinking. at best, any election with biden and trump as the two candidates are going to be nail biters, with DNC peeps having to work two, three times as hard to get the vote out than virtually any other candidate they could pick.
And yet when specifics come up, there is no consensus candidate other than Biden.
It’s how he won the last primary. He was the second-choice of a larger and more divided pool of other candidates - we’ve always wanted someone other than Biden. The issue is that we can’t agree on who that would be.
I really think you’re underestimating the advantages of name recognition and incumbency.
if Biden were to support and go to bat for any other candidate his name recognition and incumbency could be made to work for them.
That he doesn’t do that… is a matter of his own ego.
Incumbency and name recognition don’t work like that, as a great many outgoing politicians who endorse and campaign for their picked protégé find out.
Influenced by his ego, sure, but not simply a matter of ego. I would have loved for Biden to step down as a one-term president, but I also understand that there is a matter of political calculation in this.
If they can’t solve the problem in the last seven years, what makes you think they’ll solve it in the next five?
This is a bed of the DNC’s own making and just further evidence that they’re too out of touch to actually effectively govern.
How is that relevant to the argument we were having? We were discussing Biden’s electability and whether incumbency and name recognition are linked to his running for president, not whether the DNC can govern, or what problem(?) wasn’t solved in the past 7 years.