So one of their objectives is rescuing hostages, and they can’t check before they poison a bunch of people? At this point the IDF has killed more hostages than it has saved. I don’t think it’s just bad luck. They. Don’t. Care.
It’s not like they know their way around these tunnels. They were built to be hard to navigate and built to conceal people and contraband.
Bottom line bud, if there was a fire anywhere near a shaft, heavier-than-air gases will sink downward into tunnels. Have you ever heard stories about someone goes down even into a root cellar or something and then passes out, and three more people go down after them one a time and all succumb?
You’re attributing to malice what is easily explained by basic physics and coincidence.
Do you understand how these two events are and are not connected? They are independent events.
That one was a war crime. It’s very normal to be angry about that. Try not to let that inject logical fallacies into your thoughts process about unrelated events, though.
I agree that the mother may be speculating on what’s written between the lines in the report, but can you blame her since all IDF operations only brought a single hostage back alive?
If you look at each individual incident, you may be able to come up with some excuse that could seem very flimsy to some (like myself), but what about putting them all together? The big picture looks grim for Israel. Field executions, destroying infrastructure, starving the population… With a genocide case looming, I see why Israel sympathizers and Zionists would like to focus on the nitty gritty details of fake IDF reports (you don’t deem them fake of course), because it distracts from the extensively large tapestry of blood and ethnic cleansing that Israel been weaving for us to see day after day for the past 3 months on television, gore and all.
I can separate the right wing conservatives that are in Israel from the country and people of Israel. And because it’s a democracy, there’s a chance that in my lifetime the people there will throw these right wing pieces of shit perpetrating some of the war crimes you’ve described out of office or the military and into prison.
I can also see, and apparently I am the only one here, that it isn’t all of one thing or all of the other thing. There are some members of the IDF that have been radicalized by the intellectual rot of nationalism into being fine with some atrocities. That’s why there’s a video of an IDF tank mowing down a group of people with white flags that turned out to be hostages. One or even dozens of illegal acts in war does not make the war itself illegal.
No, you’re right, it is not the few bad apples in the IDF spoiling the bunch and making it an illegal war or a war crime…
It’s actually all the other things the IDF did that makes it a genocide and war crime. Like turning the water off, making aid slow and kafkaesque, putting aid workers in danger so Palestinians can die of starvation, and destroying every university building (I think all seven have been destroyed).
It’s not Tamar or Ariel who killed a whole family in a summary execution that are the problem… It’s the entire platoon. They are not a “few dozen”.
I often wonder what kind of denial you are in given your comments because the rest of us wake up to a “few dozen” war crimes every day with no end in sight.
Nevermind that this was in Jabalia where the IDF wrecked havoc and committed unspeakable crimes.
But yeah sure I’m sure it’s just an accident as described by you. That totally makes more sense /s
That totally makes all IDF actions justified /s
Murder? Mistake
Dead journalist? Oops mistake
Dead children? Ohh they’re human shields so it was okay to end their lives in a violent and painful way under tonnes of rubble
An entire dead family? Sorry that’s just the price we pay for peace 😢
University building demolished? totally tunnels under there even though we had time to put explosives in specific places and worked for hours around the building which would mean it was secure but we blew it up anyway, destroying vital KHAMAS infrastructure
Bombing every UN shelter? omg why are you holding Israel to another standard??!! 🤯😲😭
Dude doesn’t this kind of stuff make you feel suspicious of them?
Coincidence? Are you suggesting that poisonous gases were only coincidentally released into Gaza? Or that it’s just coincidental that there were hostages there? In the tunnels. Where even we know they would obviously be.
Edit. Just also want to share the quote from the mother of one of the people the IDF killed:
“The results of the investigation: Ron was indeed murdered,” she wrote. “Not by Hamas. Think more in the direction of Auschwitz and the showers but without Nazis and without Hamas as the cause. No accidental shooting, no report, premeditated murder, bombings with poisonous gases.”
Yes his presence. I saw the mother’s quote. The actual report said the cause of death could not be determined due to the condition of the body. This is the sole report I’ve heard from anyone in the course of war suggesting the use of poisonous gas as a weapon and for that reason it’s just not credible.
More likely, the woman misunderstood the report or, as many here have done, attributed to malice what is better explained by bad luck.
From context and reading between the lines, I could see the report stating that the man suffocated from smoke and fumes before being burned in a fire. That would be consistent with both the IDF and the mother’s statements.
The IDF seems to always say “we can’t confirm” or “we had no activity in the area” or “we don’t know maybe a Palestinian shot this journalist in the head even though we extracted a standard IDF bullet from her head” every time they do something terrible.
Sometimes they say that. Most of the time though they say “yeah we conducted an airstrike and killed X number of Hamas militants.”
And of course Hamas says every single time “nope those were innocent people just going about their day.”
Some of them have to be Hamas, right? So, in my view, they have less credibility. Denying their own existence is part of their strategy of martyrdom. If they admit Israel really did kill a bunch of Hamas soldiers, that doesn’t push the right narrative for Hamas and Iran.
I am not asking about Hamas. I am asking about YOU.
Would it be acceptable to YOU to kill countless neighbours and many members of your own family in an explosion because the IDF has determined that a Hamas tunnel runs under your house? Would it be acceptable to YOU personally to take your family out of the zones to a Safe Zone and get killed there anyway? Is there anything on this earth that is worth your daughter being blown to pieces and you having to carry the remains of her limbs in a plastic bag? Because that actually happened to one man.
So one of their objectives is rescuing hostages, and they can’t check before they poison a bunch of people? At this point the IDF has killed more hostages than it has saved. I don’t think it’s just bad luck. They. Don’t. Care.
It’s not like they know their way around these tunnels. They were built to be hard to navigate and built to conceal people and contraband.
Bottom line bud, if there was a fire anywhere near a shaft, heavier-than-air gases will sink downward into tunnels. Have you ever heard stories about someone goes down even into a root cellar or something and then passes out, and three more people go down after them one a time and all succumb?
You’re attributing to malice what is easily explained by basic physics and coincidence.
Yes these hostages who were killed waving the white flag can also be explained by coincidence.
Do you understand how these two events are and are not connected? They are independent events.
That one was a war crime. It’s very normal to be angry about that. Try not to let that inject logical fallacies into your thoughts process about unrelated events, though.
This would make more sense if the IDF didn’t have a track record of killing Palestinians on purpose and Israelis “by mistake”.
That’s not evidence of what happened on this occasion, it’s rote speculation and conjecture.
I agree that the mother may be speculating on what’s written between the lines in the report, but can you blame her since all IDF operations only brought a single hostage back alive?
If you look at each individual incident, you may be able to come up with some excuse that could seem very flimsy to some (like myself), but what about putting them all together? The big picture looks grim for Israel. Field executions, destroying infrastructure, starving the population… With a genocide case looming, I see why Israel sympathizers and Zionists would like to focus on the nitty gritty details of fake IDF reports (you don’t deem them fake of course), because it distracts from the extensively large tapestry of blood and ethnic cleansing that Israel been weaving for us to see day after day for the past 3 months on television, gore and all.
I can separate the right wing conservatives that are in Israel from the country and people of Israel. And because it’s a democracy, there’s a chance that in my lifetime the people there will throw these right wing pieces of shit perpetrating some of the war crimes you’ve described out of office or the military and into prison.
I can also see, and apparently I am the only one here, that it isn’t all of one thing or all of the other thing. There are some members of the IDF that have been radicalized by the intellectual rot of nationalism into being fine with some atrocities. That’s why there’s a video of an IDF tank mowing down a group of people with white flags that turned out to be hostages. One or even dozens of illegal acts in war does not make the war itself illegal.
No, you’re right, it is not the few bad apples in the IDF spoiling the bunch and making it an illegal war or a war crime…
It’s actually all the other things the IDF did that makes it a genocide and war crime. Like turning the water off, making aid slow and kafkaesque, putting aid workers in danger so Palestinians can die of starvation, and destroying every university building (I think all seven have been destroyed).
It’s not Tamar or Ariel who killed a whole family in a summary execution that are the problem… It’s the entire platoon. They are not a “few dozen”.
I often wonder what kind of denial you are in given your comments because the rest of us wake up to a “few dozen” war crimes every day with no end in sight.
Nevermind that this was in Jabalia where the IDF wrecked havoc and committed unspeakable crimes.
But yeah sure I’m sure it’s just an accident as described by you. That totally makes more sense /s
That totally makes all IDF actions justified /s
Murder? Mistake
Dead journalist? Oops mistake
Dead children? Ohh they’re human shields so it was okay to end their lives in a violent and painful way under tonnes of rubble
An entire dead family? Sorry that’s just the price we pay for peace 😢
University building demolished? totally tunnels under there even though we had time to put explosives in specific places and worked for hours around the building which would mean it was secure but we blew it up anyway, destroying vital KHAMAS infrastructure
Bombing every UN shelter? omg why are you holding Israel to another standard??!! 🤯😲😭
Dude doesn’t this kind of stuff make you feel suspicious of them?
Coincidence? Are you suggesting that poisonous gases were only coincidentally released into Gaza? Or that it’s just coincidental that there were hostages there? In the tunnels. Where even we know they would obviously be.
Edit. Just also want to share the quote from the mother of one of the people the IDF killed:
Yes his presence. I saw the mother’s quote. The actual report said the cause of death could not be determined due to the condition of the body. This is the sole report I’ve heard from anyone in the course of war suggesting the use of poisonous gas as a weapon and for that reason it’s just not credible.
More likely, the woman misunderstood the report or, as many here have done, attributed to malice what is better explained by bad luck.
From context and reading between the lines, I could see the report stating that the man suffocated from smoke and fumes before being burned in a fire. That would be consistent with both the IDF and the mother’s statements.
The IDF seems to always say “we can’t confirm” or “we had no activity in the area” or “we don’t know maybe a Palestinian shot this journalist in the head even though we extracted a standard IDF bullet from her head” every time they do something terrible.
I don’t think THAT’S a coincidence.
Sometimes they say that. Most of the time though they say “yeah we conducted an airstrike and killed X number of Hamas militants.”
And of course Hamas says every single time “nope those were innocent people just going about their day.”
Some of them have to be Hamas, right? So, in my view, they have less credibility. Denying their own existence is part of their strategy of martyrdom. If they admit Israel really did kill a bunch of Hamas soldiers, that doesn’t push the right narrative for Hamas and Iran.
I mean, when you kill 100 and like 48 are children, is that an acceptable price to pay to maybe 50/50 get a chance at killing a Hamas commander?
Is this acceptable to you as a person?
Some of them might be innocent civilians, right?
It doesn’t bother you that Israel turned them into sacrificial lambs?
Hamas put those people in harm’s way. They were told to get out of Gaza City.
I am not asking about Hamas. I am asking about YOU.
Would it be acceptable to YOU to kill countless neighbours and many members of your own family in an explosion because the IDF has determined that a Hamas tunnel runs under your house? Would it be acceptable to YOU personally to take your family out of the zones to a Safe Zone and get killed there anyway? Is there anything on this earth that is worth your daughter being blown to pieces and you having to carry the remains of her limbs in a plastic bag? Because that actually happened to one man.
Please answer.
the harm came from Israeli weapons