- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Tim Alberta’s recent book about the Christian nationalist takeover of American evangelicalism, “The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory,” is full of preachers and activists on the religious right expressing sheepish second thoughts about their prostration before Donald Trump. Robert Jeffress, the senior pastor at First Baptist Dallas — whom Texas Monthly once called “Trump’s apostle” for his slavish Trump boosterism — admitted to Alberta in 2021 that turning himself into a politician’s theological hype man may have compromised his spiritual mission. “I had that internal conversation with myself — and I guess with God, too — about, you know, when do you cross the line?” he said, allowing that the line had, “perhaps,” been crossed.
Such qualms grew more vocal after voter revulsion toward MAGA candidates cost Republicans their prophesied red wave in 2022. Mike Evans, a former member of Trump’s evangelical advisory board, described, in an essay he sent to The Washington Post, leaving a Trump rally “in tears because I saw Bible believers glorifying Donald Trump like he was an idol.” Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, enthused to Alberta about the way Trump had punched “the bully that had been pushing evangelicals around,” by which he presumably meant American liberals. But, Perkins said, “The challenge is, he went a little too far. He had too much of an edge sometimes.” Perkins was clearly rooting for Ron DeSantis, who represented the shining hope of a post-Trump religious right.
But there’s not going to be a post-Trump religious right — at least, not anytime soon. Evangelical leaders who started their alliance with Trump on a transactional basis, then grew giddy with their proximity to power, have now seen MAGA devour their movement whole.
I looked into it a tiny bit today - e.g. you can hear about it from his own words:
Calling Mark a defeat, and his actions a defect, does not sound to me like much of a “defense” of Mark’s actions? Whoever told you that Piper was defending him might have been exagerating more than a little - the “Satanic victory” that I read from this quote is over the fact that Mark chose to act in that manner, not the fact that Mark was taken down unfairly by the “lamestream liberal media” or whatever.
Also, I happen to agree with John Piper given solely the context of the quote that you cited: anyone at all who is married should probably sleep on something, especially a more minor event, and then seek more qualified help - what is wrong with that advice? I did not read from your quote where he said that she should not seek help from the police, or that she should put up with long-term abuse, but I did read from it that she should seek help, from someone qualified to offer that (it reads as if he does not know her personally, so was directing her to go to someone that she would trust).
Also from your very own words, it seems that you are not at peace yourself with your opinion of him. People will let you down for sure, but I hope you find a way to get past it. Forget Piper, if that helps you, and find something real - that much I agree with you on:-). (although this “Piper” that you speak of does not match up with what I can glean about the dude irl, so there’s that too)
I do not need to be at peace with anyone who would marginalize half the human race. My job is to speak out on behalf of the poor, the immigrant and the oppressed.
I do not agree with you or him, I think that is a dangerous perspective on marriage and relationships that leads to countless women remaining in abusive situations.
It is hard enough to get help or leave as it is, creating submission narratives that reinforce dangerous behavior can cause untold harm.
On that point I 100% agree. Fwiw, I do not know about Piper in particular but much of Christianity bespeaks of a mutual form of submission of both to one another. I am not making up these words as it says it quite plainly in Ephesians 5:21:
Ofc, people - very often including women - often choose to forget about this verse, and focus on the one singular verse that immediately follows it about wives submiting to their husbands, as if telling half the story is somehow anywhere close to telling the entire thing. Yes wives should, within reason, and also husbands should - BOTH should, up to a point.
What I said about a wife should pause for a moment before taking action is what I believe, but it does NOT follow that she should never tell the police, or that she should never seek help, or that she should allow him to abuse her (or that he should allow similar in return).
The Bible has a ton of verses literally commanding followers to consider the oppressed - e.g. Matthew 25:
Ofc, the main problem with Christianity is all the darn Christians, who don’t practice what they preach nor even read the book that they claim is holy even as they beat you over the head with it:-P. But if Piper is among those and preaching that women should be abused, then yeah it would be okay in that case to be angry at him. God Himself would be furious. The thing is… I have yet to see any evidence that he is one of those who is spreading such a message of hate and pain and fear.
So it’s a good cause you are fighting for - I’m totally with you there - I know don’t see so far what that has to do with him?