You guys wouldn’t have this clusterfuck if you just had a parliamentary system. Don’t like the non-reactionary liberal candidate? Great, just vote for whoever else you like, and even if they don’t win, they can still join efforts with the lesser evil to make sure the far right doesn’t return to power. It also has the added benefit that it doesn’t force the whole right wing of the country to cater to the rabid reactionaries on the rise, because those just make a different party that has to balance the distribution of their power with their less mad allies.
I’m sure you gathered that this demonstrates that simply being a proportional representation parliament didn’t stop far right parties from gaining power, it perhaps even enabled it, as in first past they may have had far less seats.
simply being a proportional representation parliament didn’t stop far right parties from gaining power
No. Because the power that the far right party accrued came - first and foremost - from the German military officers’ corpse and their allies in private industry. The original Beer Hall Putsch wasn’t the result of an election, it was a straight coup. And the leader of that insurrection got turned into a national martyr by propagandists and right-wing agitators thanks to good old fashioned jackboots-on-the-ground rabble rousing.
The German populace was ripe for this kind of agitprop because so many of them - not unfairly - considered their dire economic condition the consequence of foreign government officials who were siphoning off national wealth to profit private industry abroad. This, combined with the White Terror of the 30s to suppress union organizing and the enormous outside investment by American and British Fascists, gave the German movement the legs it needed to compete politically on a national stage.
in first past they may have had far less seats
Largely dependent on the distribution of voters across districts. Historically, FPTP combined with an aggressive gerrymandering of districts, creates seats that are safer for incumbents. But, as we saw in the States, these “safe” seats are still vulnerable to intra-party insurrection.
But all this is secondary to the rapid incorporation of the German Friekorps into the Nazi movement. This gave the party the kind of military muscle that made the election a secondary concern. Even if the Nazis hadn’t won a plurality of seats, they could have just as easily used the organized violence of the state militia to extract concessions through another coup (or at least the threat of one).
“People who refused to vote for Biden” meme is skittering by the innumerable instances in which elections are simply stolen or the results overturned in coups.
One single country isn’t a great example. Taking a look at both Europe and North America, the countries with parliamentary systems have seen how the growth of their far rights has been far slower than those with presidential systems (USA and France). Canada is also a rare example of a modern, Western parliamentary system where a two party system emerges naturally, as opposed to many opposite examples in Europe.
That’s not true either. The current Conservative party, the one that held power under Harper, is not the same party as the previous “conservative” Prime Minister, Brian Mulroney. The “progressive Conservative” party essentially ceased to exist early 2000s, and the Conservative Party of today is essentially the Reform party founded in 1988, had a few name changes along the way. Yes, at one point they absorbed what was left of the PCs, when Reform had like 50 seats and the PCs maybe 3. Anyways, that’s 3 parties that have formed government, and at least 6 that have reached 2nd largest/official opposition at various times.
We have it here in the UK and it’s pretty shitty, closest time out came to working we had a coalition government where the liberal democrats campaigned on leftwing values then helped the Tories get in power and did the opposite of everything they’d promised. We also get strings of prime ministers running the country for a few weeks while they give their friends free money then quit when their actual criminal crimes are discovered so the next etonian can have a turn
This is the key issue with the US system.
People and parties complain about gerrymandering but the party in power only changes the map to profit in the next election instead of establishing a democratic system where every vote counts the same.
It’s the same issue in Germany with direct mandates, which allow absolute minority parties to be represented in the parliament.
Parliamentary is still First Past The Post for members of parliament. The PM is effectively the leader of the biggest party (yes lots of caveats but that’s how it plays out).
You guys wouldn’t have this clusterfuck if you just had a parliamentary system. Don’t like the non-reactionary liberal candidate? Great, just vote for whoever else you like, and even if they don’t win, they can still join efforts with the lesser evil to make sure the far right doesn’t return to power. It also has the added benefit that it doesn’t force the whole right wing of the country to cater to the rabid reactionaries on the rise, because those just make a different party that has to balance the distribution of their power with their less mad allies.
You’re talking about a proportionally representative parliamentary system.
The UK has a parliamentary system and it’s still just as possible for the opposition to be entirely powerless for 5 years at a time.
First past the post voting. That’s the problem.
Parliamentary or not. The actual voting system is the problem.
Dont forget the legal bribery in usa.
UK too. It’s just our politicians are much, much cheaper.
(Looks at Weimar Republic) Oh Cmon dude, I think you knew this one was a parliament with proportional representation…
The fundamental problem with German parliamentary democracy wasn’t the structure nearly so much as the leadership.
Maybe Hindenberg just… idk… shouldn’t have appointed Hitler to the Chancellorship. Maybe just don’t do that.
I’m sure you gathered that this demonstrates that simply being a proportional representation parliament didn’t stop far right parties from gaining power, it perhaps even enabled it, as in first past they may have had far less seats.
No. Because the power that the far right party accrued came - first and foremost - from the German military officers’ corpse and their allies in private industry. The original Beer Hall Putsch wasn’t the result of an election, it was a straight coup. And the leader of that insurrection got turned into a national martyr by propagandists and right-wing agitators thanks to good old fashioned jackboots-on-the-ground rabble rousing.
The German populace was ripe for this kind of agitprop because so many of them - not unfairly - considered their dire economic condition the consequence of foreign government officials who were siphoning off national wealth to profit private industry abroad. This, combined with the White Terror of the 30s to suppress union organizing and the enormous outside investment by American and British Fascists, gave the German movement the legs it needed to compete politically on a national stage.
Largely dependent on the distribution of voters across districts. Historically, FPTP combined with an aggressive gerrymandering of districts, creates seats that are safer for incumbents. But, as we saw in the States, these “safe” seats are still vulnerable to intra-party insurrection.
But all this is secondary to the rapid incorporation of the German Friekorps into the Nazi movement. This gave the party the kind of military muscle that made the election a secondary concern. Even if the Nazis hadn’t won a plurality of seats, they could have just as easily used the organized violence of the state militia to extract concessions through another coup (or at least the threat of one).
This is all true…and irrelevant to the point being made.
“People who refused to vote for Biden” meme is skittering by the innumerable instances in which elections are simply stolen or the results overturned in coups.
(Looks at Canada) There is zero proof of what you just said.
Canada has first past the post, comment clearly means parliamentary system with proportional representation based on the text.
No, it didn’t mention, imply or specify that whatsoever.
Canada, the UK, Taiwan, Italy, … mf Israel for Christ’s sake.
One single country isn’t a great example. Taking a look at both Europe and North America, the countries with parliamentary systems have seen how the growth of their far rights has been far slower than those with presidential systems (USA and France). Canada is also a rare example of a modern, Western parliamentary system where a two party system emerges naturally, as opposed to many opposite examples in Europe.
Canada has 5 significant federal political parties
Conservatives (right) Liberals (center right) NDP (center left) Bloc Quebecois (regionalist) Green (Environmental)
Only Conservatives and liberals have ever formed government but NDP and Bloq have both formed official opposition and held the balance of power.
It only happens to work a bit because of strong regionalism. I also wouldn’t count the green party as a serious party.
That’s not true either. The current Conservative party, the one that held power under Harper, is not the same party as the previous “conservative” Prime Minister, Brian Mulroney. The “progressive Conservative” party essentially ceased to exist early 2000s, and the Conservative Party of today is essentially the Reform party founded in 1988, had a few name changes along the way. Yes, at one point they absorbed what was left of the PCs, when Reform had like 50 seats and the PCs maybe 3. Anyways, that’s 3 parties that have formed government, and at least 6 that have reached 2nd largest/official opposition at various times.
We have it here in the UK and it’s pretty shitty, closest time out came to working we had a coalition government where the liberal democrats campaigned on leftwing values then helped the Tories get in power and did the opposite of everything they’d promised. We also get strings of prime ministers running the country for a few weeks while they give their friends free money then quit when their actual criminal crimes are discovered so the next etonian can have a turn
Who would have thought having more than two choices for who governs a country of 330 million with a nuclear arsenal would be a smart thing…
This is the key issue with the US system. People and parties complain about gerrymandering but the party in power only changes the map to profit in the next election instead of establishing a democratic system where every vote counts the same. It’s the same issue in Germany with direct mandates, which allow absolute minority parties to be represented in the parliament.
Parliamentary is still First Past The Post for members of parliament. The PM is effectively the leader of the biggest party (yes lots of caveats but that’s how it plays out).