Talking in broad strokes all about balancing “freedom of identity/attraction” and “religious freedom” makes for a decent-sounding empathetic viewpoint prioritizing individual liberty. I understand where this is coming from, I don’t disagree myself, but then again who would?
And that’s why we have to get into the specifics of “forcefully spreading their belief system and values to others” because that’s what happens to queer people as status quo. We’re legally and socially discriminated out of a lot of aspects of public life and often carry deep trauma from wrath and abuse incurred on the way. Conversion therapy is still legal in many places for fucks sake! The hell is that if not forcefully spreading a belief system?
Often times, the term this is justified under is “freedom of religion” - but really it’s freedom to control and abuse others due to religious justification. The two freedoms are not equatable, therefore the balanced center between is not a neutral position.
Corporate pride advertising is super forced and very few queer people are actually on board with it. The term is “rainbow capitalism” and it’s pretty derisive. Unfortunately that’s all of what some people know of us - they don’t know us as people, as communities, just like them; they know us as a rainbow flag on a TV screen and as a Tucker/LWT/[whoever’s got opinions about us today] talk show segment, and so that’s all they think we are. Nobody likes this, queer people least of all.
“Conversion therapy is still legal in many places for fucks sake!” This is a blatant form of persecution and everyone shoult protest and shut shit down until it’s fixed. Conversion therapy is, in my book, not protected by religious freedom, at all.
This remids me about the meme, two bomb-planes D and R, were one just bombs, and the other bombs too, but with rainbow colors, blm and every other “current” coopted flag.
You take an awful coropration and put lipstick on it to make it better…
I try to take a few steps back and, to me, it looks like the exploitation-class has coopted this issue, enlarging it, to make it more divisive than it actually is. I would think most people have a “can we not just live our lives in peace” attitude, whether you are lgbtq, straight, religious or atheist.
I point conversion therapy out as an egregious example of persecution, but there’s plenty more, through a variety of avenues. Many fly under the radar as things that sound less intense - schools notifying parents if kids go by a nickname or change how they present is one that’s come up a lot lately.
From experience - lots of people thankfully have a “live our lives in peace” attitude - but unfortunately even a minority of bigots can make our lives pretty difficult and divisive. Especially if they’re allowed to do so by other people who don’t agree themselves, but also don’t fight it when they see it.
And so sure, the message has been coopted for mainstream audiences by corporations running ads like “[sterile uplifting music] at CitiBank, we think you’re people! [stock rainbow flags waving]” If you know anyone who’s queer, you know there’s real difficulty that comes with it, but also a resilient community takes care of each other the best they can. Pride ads are how most people know of us, but they’re not even close to representing us or the stakes we face. They’re pretty much entirely irrelevant to us - we never asked for them, and they certainly don’t help.
I cannot help but make the comparison to religion, yet again. Even though I’m an atheist or agnostic, not really sure. Religion is different because they are on both the giving and the recieving end of persecution.They use religion as a base for their persecution of other people of a different religion (or sexual identification, sexual attraction, even something as trivial as dress code). Expressions that are clearly protected within the law. Whenever freedom of expression is challenged, there should be huge crowds to support the FoE, and I think that is also relevant in context of your next paragraph too.
Regarding your last paragraph. Corporations hammer the message for the same reason they hammer any ad, it works. If ads didn’t work, it wouldn’t be a billion dollar industry. My point is, every corporation hammering the “we are inclusive” message feels inorganic. I might confuse this feeling with it just being “in” or trendy atm.
I went just once in Capitol Hill, Seattle. If I was more of an extroverted type it probably could have been cool - it was a concert venue featuring a bunch of queer artists, and a lot of tents for queer community organizations - mutual aid, healthcare, counseling, etc. There’s definitely a way to make Pride useful for the community. But it’s really just bringing together a community that always existed regardless - and imo no reason to wait til June to start getting involved and organized 😁
Presuming Seattle based on response, but know there are other places named Capitol Hill.
The only Pride worth going to is the small parade that happens on like a Thursday before the big one. It’s really the event of the locals and those who have been part of the community. For whatever reason, the City of Seattle will no longer permit the big parade through the actual gay neighborhood, pushing it through downtown and on to Seattle Center instead. I am fairly certain that this is specifically done for capitalist reasons so they have more room for people to sell overpriced food.
In any case, never go to the BIG event, go to the smaller neighborhood one in whichever city you’re in.
Talking in broad strokes all about balancing “freedom of identity/attraction” and “religious freedom” makes for a decent-sounding empathetic viewpoint prioritizing individual liberty. I understand where this is coming from, I don’t disagree myself, but then again who would?
And that’s why we have to get into the specifics of “forcefully spreading their belief system and values to others” because that’s what happens to queer people as status quo. We’re legally and socially discriminated out of a lot of aspects of public life and often carry deep trauma from wrath and abuse incurred on the way. Conversion therapy is still legal in many places for fucks sake! The hell is that if not forcefully spreading a belief system?
Often times, the term this is justified under is “freedom of religion” - but really it’s freedom to control and abuse others due to religious justification. The two freedoms are not equatable, therefore the balanced center between is not a neutral position.
Corporate pride advertising is super forced and very few queer people are actually on board with it. The term is “rainbow capitalism” and it’s pretty derisive. Unfortunately that’s all of what some people know of us - they don’t know us as people, as communities, just like them; they know us as a rainbow flag on a TV screen and as a Tucker/LWT/[whoever’s got opinions about us today] talk show segment, and so that’s all they think we are. Nobody likes this, queer people least of all.
“Conversion therapy is still legal in many places for fucks sake!” This is a blatant form of persecution and everyone shoult protest and shut shit down until it’s fixed. Conversion therapy is, in my book, not protected by religious freedom, at all.
This remids me about the meme, two bomb-planes D and R, were one just bombs, and the other bombs too, but with rainbow colors, blm and every other “current” coopted flag.
You take an awful coropration and put lipstick on it to make it better…
I try to take a few steps back and, to me, it looks like the exploitation-class has coopted this issue, enlarging it, to make it more divisive than it actually is. I would think most people have a “can we not just live our lives in peace” attitude, whether you are lgbtq, straight, religious or atheist.
I point conversion therapy out as an egregious example of persecution, but there’s plenty more, through a variety of avenues. Many fly under the radar as things that sound less intense - schools notifying parents if kids go by a nickname or change how they present is one that’s come up a lot lately.
From experience - lots of people thankfully have a “live our lives in peace” attitude - but unfortunately even a minority of bigots can make our lives pretty difficult and divisive. Especially if they’re allowed to do so by other people who don’t agree themselves, but also don’t fight it when they see it.
And so sure, the message has been coopted for mainstream audiences by corporations running ads like “[sterile uplifting music] at CitiBank, we think you’re people! [stock rainbow flags waving]” If you know anyone who’s queer, you know there’s real difficulty that comes with it, but also a resilient community takes care of each other the best they can. Pride ads are how most people know of us, but they’re not even close to representing us or the stakes we face. They’re pretty much entirely irrelevant to us - we never asked for them, and they certainly don’t help.
I cannot help but make the comparison to religion, yet again. Even though I’m an atheist or agnostic, not really sure. Religion is different because they are on both the giving and the recieving end of persecution.They use religion as a base for their persecution of other people of a different religion (or sexual identification, sexual attraction, even something as trivial as dress code). Expressions that are clearly protected within the law. Whenever freedom of expression is challenged, there should be huge crowds to support the FoE, and I think that is also relevant in context of your next paragraph too.
Regarding your last paragraph. Corporations hammer the message for the same reason they hammer any ad, it works. If ads didn’t work, it wouldn’t be a billion dollar industry. My point is, every corporation hammering the “we are inclusive” message feels inorganic. I might confuse this feeling with it just being “in” or trendy atm.
Yep. I stopped going to Pride because of the corporate nonsense. I like that children are there with rainbow flags, but the rest is unhelpful.
I went just once in Capitol Hill, Seattle. If I was more of an extroverted type it probably could have been cool - it was a concert venue featuring a bunch of queer artists, and a lot of tents for queer community organizations - mutual aid, healthcare, counseling, etc. There’s definitely a way to make Pride useful for the community. But it’s really just bringing together a community that always existed regardless - and imo no reason to wait til June to start getting involved and organized 😁
Presuming Seattle based on response, but know there are other places named Capitol Hill.
The only Pride worth going to is the small parade that happens on like a Thursday before the big one. It’s really the event of the locals and those who have been part of the community. For whatever reason, the City of Seattle will no longer permit the big parade through the actual gay neighborhood, pushing it through downtown and on to Seattle Center instead. I am fairly certain that this is specifically done for capitalist reasons so they have more room for people to sell overpriced food.
In any case, never go to the BIG event, go to the smaller neighborhood one in whichever city you’re in.