Framework as in the laptop company, just for clarity. https://frame.work/. For those unaware, the idea is that these are laptops built with a high degree of modularity so that you can replace far more than a single stick of SODIMM with the goal of even upgrading your CPU and mainboard a few years down the line.

Also, Framework is partially owned by Linus Sebastien (Linus Tech Tips) so their marketing is “off the chain” as it were.

Over the past few years I have tried to convince myself to get one a few times. But… the pricing never made sense. As a quick exercise:

But I still like the fundamental concept (of the marketing…) of upgradable laptops.

But then I finally watched the Tested teardown video with Norm (the heart and soul of Tested and has been since the Whiskey days) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drxOpMsr6sM and… the general takeaways were that there is a LOT of cool tech involved in the modularity but that the vast majority of people would never mess around with it after assembling their laptop for the first time. Also, Adam Savage has stickers.

Combine that with all of their modular ports being 20 dollar USB-C dongles with single ports and… this feels a lot more like the kind of bullshit Apple does than anything else. Why use the USB C dongle/hub that works with all your other devices when you can buy a 20 dollar HDMI port instead?

Same with stuff like the (honestly insanely cool) modular keyboard layout. Basically, the keyboard, touchpad, etc are all panels that can be popped off and swapped around. So if you want stupid LEDs, you can have them. If you want an offset keyboard, you can do it. If you want a 10key numpad, you can do that too. It is a genuinely awesome idea but… it is a lot of engineering for something that people will use maybe twice in their ownership of the laptop (once to configure, one to replace when they spill their drink). Same with things like being able to swap out the back module to have a GPU when you want it. You do that once.

Which… makes it feel like people are paying a premium for easier assembly at a factory.

And as for the upgradable hardware? Storage and ram are on point and they should be praised. But you are basically buying whole new modules for the CPU/mobo and the GPU and so forth. Which… is kind of necessary because it is so rare to find an actual mobile sized GPU in a consumer available format. But it continues to just feel like you are buying proprietary parts from a company (Framework want other companies to make parts but I have not looked through the terms and licensing).

But also? A friend pointed out: How many sticks of DDR3 ram do you still have? Because I know that I have a big bin of computer parts “just in case” that I will never use but also can’t be bothered to throw away because maybe I will. And that is what these modular parts become. You COULD recycle your old mainboad+cpu… or you can keep it in case you want to do a project that you never will and that would be perfectly fine with a raspberry pi or a cheap nuc anyway.

Contrast that with wiping your laptop and giving it to a nephew or dropping it off in an e-waste bin (and many stores offer incentives to do that).

All of which combines to… this feels a lot like the kind of “poison pill” compliance that Apple is doing on the right to repair side. They make a big deal about how they allow people to repair their shit now (that various governments threatened action…). But they tightly control the parts and rent out the hardware AND price it to strongly discourage hobbyists to the point that it mostly feels like they are just squeezing out the third party shops even more.

I’m torn because I do think the stated ethos is awesome. I… also have had no issues replacing my storage or upgrading my ram in my last few laptops but I tend to not get “flagship” models so there is that. But it is increasingly feeling like Framework is just building up IP to sell to manufacturers while having a net negative on the amount of e-waste in the laptop space.

  • @LutraEnglish
    14•10 months ago

    1. I’m old enough to have been down this road a dozen times, and it has always ended in tears. The ones I bought into either came into the market too early, too beta, or too late, or just weren’t able to see it through or abandoned hope mid journey.

    2. I think it has a great chance to be a great thing.

    Why? The magic isn’t the Framework Ecosystem. It’s one thing, un-crapified modularity. The reason most of us can afford to keep a car working isn’t because of the great Mazda or Ford ecosystem of parts. Its because the un-crapified modularity of those parts. The designs are “open” (they’re not in the libré sense, but they are simple re-make or recreate ). That is why most of us can keep our cars going. If I need a headlight, or an alternator, or a throttle-position sensor, not only does Mazda make/have the part, there are a dozen other people who make the part. I not only get a replacement, but I get choices in a open market in a range of prices and qualities.
    I imagine in 2032, even if the company Framework has disappeared, there will be a lady in New Jersey making inexpensive replacement modules. That is a ‘good thing’.

    Its no accident everything on an Apple device is soldered down. If they made cars they’d grind down all the bolt heads and embed the engine in epoxy. It’s their ethos. If my macbook ssd goes bad, all they can do for me is sell me a new one. The beauty of the Framework is that each module can be replaced. So no, the typical user is not going to completely upgrade their laptop in 8 years. (but they could) But, most will want to replace that one broken part on their otherwise perfectly good laptop. Another way to think about it, lets say I have a 10 year old car, worth $5k. To replace every part might truly cost me $35,000. But the way chance works, it’s rate to actually need to replace every part. And the parts that need replacing are usually relatively inexpensive.

    Some years ago Consumer Reports Magazine had a section where they’d list the costs of all the replacement parts of a new car. Was interesting. IIRC it was about 4x the cost of the car.