If I’m hiring you to photograph me not to be my digital artist. Or at least offer both.
This is what I meant by “specific circumstances.” This might end up as something of a long answer, I’m not sure. But fair warning in advance.
I can really only speak to my experience, which encompasses myself and the photographers with which I’ve met and interacted during the past eight-ish years. Keep in mind, I’m a family portrait photographer - families, couples, etc. - and I don’t know anyone who operates in the manner you’re suggesting here. Frankly, my life would be much easier if that were the case. I’d much prefer an environment where my job ended at the shoot. Lightroom/Photoshop work is the majority of a photographer’s time spent on any given project by a ridiculous margin.
So, my contracts offer both services by default. I give my clients the choice between selecting their contracted number of images from a digital proofs gallery - essentially all the RAW images in a digital album they can mark favorites on, but can’t download for themselves - or leave it up to me as “photographer’s choice.” Almost all of them opt to let me do it.
You describe a RAW image as pure, and I think that’s great. Most photographers, however, would probably describe it as unprocessed. Or unfinished. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be wary of that being the side of your work being shown to the public, in today’s social media obsessed world. It’s like most artists not wanting a work of theirs being shown halfway through, when they know the final product will look so much better.
If that’s manipulative business practice, I mean…I truly don’t see it. The RAWs are available to purchase for an additional fee, for all my clients, with the signed addendum to their contract they will never be posted in their RAW form anywhere online. If editing is done by anyone else, attribution is to given to them when an image is posted, or I will request the image is removed. Just because I run a small business doesn’t mean I don’t have a brand, a style, or a standard of quality to protect.
It’s not about showing off Photoshop skills or being withholding. It’s about - again, as a portrait photographer - people seeing your work, and wanting to hire you because of that work. Because it looks a certain way and evokes a certain style.
I hope that better explains it. Or helps clarify it to some degree.
Ah well you actually give the option to purchase the RAW which I’m fine with. At least ALLOW me to have an option to have the RAW myself.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself and I can see circumstances where a professional’s reputation and work quality are directly correlated with their future business and financial stability.
But I’d gladly pay a fee and I straight up had a photographer deny me family photo RAWs because they “never” allowed anyone access to those.
As long as you make it clear beforehand that’s what you want, then the photog can decide whether or not they’re ok with it. I’m also a pro and personally I would love more jobs where I only have to deliver the RAWs as like the other guy said editing is what takes the vast majority of my time on most jobs, but I certainly also understand the other side of the argument.
Another way to think about this: if you were a chef and someone came to your restaurant and asked for the raw ingredients so you can make the food yourself, I don’t think many chefs would allow that either.
Sometimes, you have to/decide to use techniques which might mean that the RAWs are pretty useless unless they also go through the specific post-process you had in mind while shooting.
With that said I know that many of my colleagues can be total dickheads in particular when it comes to the niches that deal with end-user stuff like family portraits, weddings etc, so I have no troubles believing you’ve had bad experiences.
You make a good point about hiring a photographer, per se, and expecting the product to be the photography itself, not a later product that the photography acts as input to.
This is what I meant by “specific circumstances.” This might end up as something of a long answer, I’m not sure. But fair warning in advance.
I can really only speak to my experience, which encompasses myself and the photographers with which I’ve met and interacted during the past eight-ish years. Keep in mind, I’m a family portrait photographer - families, couples, etc. - and I don’t know anyone who operates in the manner you’re suggesting here. Frankly, my life would be much easier if that were the case. I’d much prefer an environment where my job ended at the shoot. Lightroom/Photoshop work is the majority of a photographer’s time spent on any given project by a ridiculous margin.
So, my contracts offer both services by default. I give my clients the choice between selecting their contracted number of images from a digital proofs gallery - essentially all the RAW images in a digital album they can mark favorites on, but can’t download for themselves - or leave it up to me as “photographer’s choice.” Almost all of them opt to let me do it.
You describe a RAW image as pure, and I think that’s great. Most photographers, however, would probably describe it as unprocessed. Or unfinished. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be wary of that being the side of your work being shown to the public, in today’s social media obsessed world. It’s like most artists not wanting a work of theirs being shown halfway through, when they know the final product will look so much better.
If that’s manipulative business practice, I mean…I truly don’t see it. The RAWs are available to purchase for an additional fee, for all my clients, with the signed addendum to their contract they will never be posted in their RAW form anywhere online. If editing is done by anyone else, attribution is to given to them when an image is posted, or I will request the image is removed. Just because I run a small business doesn’t mean I don’t have a brand, a style, or a standard of quality to protect.
It’s not about showing off Photoshop skills or being withholding. It’s about - again, as a portrait photographer - people seeing your work, and wanting to hire you because of that work. Because it looks a certain way and evokes a certain style.
I hope that better explains it. Or helps clarify it to some degree.
Ah well you actually give the option to purchase the RAW which I’m fine with. At least ALLOW me to have an option to have the RAW myself.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself and I can see circumstances where a professional’s reputation and work quality are directly correlated with their future business and financial stability.
But I’d gladly pay a fee and I straight up had a photographer deny me family photo RAWs because they “never” allowed anyone access to those.
As long as you make it clear beforehand that’s what you want, then the photog can decide whether or not they’re ok with it. I’m also a pro and personally I would love more jobs where I only have to deliver the RAWs as like the other guy said editing is what takes the vast majority of my time on most jobs, but I certainly also understand the other side of the argument.
Another way to think about this: if you were a chef and someone came to your restaurant and asked for the raw ingredients so you can make the food yourself, I don’t think many chefs would allow that either.
Sometimes, you have to/decide to use techniques which might mean that the RAWs are pretty useless unless they also go through the specific post-process you had in mind while shooting.
With that said I know that many of my colleagues can be total dickheads in particular when it comes to the niches that deal with end-user stuff like family portraits, weddings etc, so I have no troubles believing you’ve had bad experiences.
You make a good point about hiring a photographer, per se, and expecting the product to be the photography itself, not a later product that the photography acts as input to.