You only answered one sentence in my whole comment and ignored the meaning of everything else. That’s what I mean. You even started with saying that I was sidetracking the conversation when I was actually refocusing it.
If you want to make this an actual discussion, write your point instead of making it a quote ping pong.
Sure, if you are interested in my personal opinion I will gladly share. Just to be sure we are on the same page: we are talking about why the new right and conservatives are able to reach young men and where and why progressives fail to do so? Agree or did I miss something?
We live in a time where everything is changing rapidly, which includes gender roles in society. Those stayed rather stable over longer periods of time, but industrialization and two consecutive world wars changed western societies rather drastically. Women became rather completely independent of men in economical aspects and simultaneously pushed for more rights and participation. But this also changed the relationship dynamic and what women seek in a relationship. While previous generation could look at their parents for role models, newer generation had to come up with their own. At the same time over the last 20 years people (in the west) started to grow up in a less certain and secure world. While at the same time internet arrived and changed a lot of ways we interact with other people, while at the same time providing populist with a perfect tool to reach their audience.
So to put it together, we live in a completely different and much more complex world form previous generations. It’s not just gender roles people are struggling with. And that is always a perfect time for populist to come around the corner and provide simple solutions. So populist and conman took on themself to sell the old romantic story of better times long gone by (conveniently their audience wasn’t alive back than, so they don’t know) just with modern tools. And easy answers that are sold in an entertaining way will always find buyers. Especially since it’s pushed by algorithms right down peoples throats.
Populism works since Caesar, and there wasn’t Internet back then… Napoléon? Hitler and Mussolini? Do you know how it went in antic democratic Athen? Populism goes with democracy. Internet has nothing to do with it.
The society is more complex than ever? I read it at least twice: in a XVth century book, and in an antiquity one.
But this is beside the subject. You’ve said nothing here to explain why the reactionaries (the alt right, the far right, populism) are benefiting from this more than the left. Are you saying that the left can’t win? Are you saying that we should shut down Internet?
You need to go farther in your analysis. There always were political forces opposing each other. The progressists were wining for women until recently. Why is it changing when young are so much more informed and educated than people were 50 years ago?
Populism benefits from new media since it offers easy solutions. While at same time it takes time for society to develop new rules and individuals to learn to handle new media. More complex ideas also need more time to be translated in a way relatable and entertaining to new audience.
Why men are seemingly more succeptable to the rightwing propaganda than women? Maybe because rightwing ideology has rather little to offer women even on populist level.
But than again you don’t seem to be interested in engaging with my arguments. So I will stop waisting my time.
What is this argument? I’m trying to understand. Here you’re not giving an argument though, merely an analysis. You don’t say anything about what’s possible about the problem. Except maybe explaining more and better then?
Men have nothing to win out of the Conservative ideology btw. It’s very harmful to them. Both physically and psychologically. But people don’t choose an ideology after a cost/benefit analysis anyway.
Last time: rightwing populism offers easy solutions to complex problems of modern world ( like for example gender: conservatives say there are two and don’t bother thinking more about that topic). Modern media allows for easy spread of populism ( algorithms pushing media that creates engagement and creating information bubbles). The right wing populism offers men a clear role and place in society. Right wing populism also offers a clear role for women in society, but it’s almost as bad as a deal as immigrants get. Progressive and feminism also offers solutions to modern problem, but they are more complex. ( For example a more complex understanding of what gender ist). Complex ideas are more difficult to sell.
If you feel like engaging with my analysis/argument/greating card what ever you call it, you are welcome otherwise have a nice day.
You only answered one sentence in my whole comment and ignored the meaning of everything else. That’s what I mean. You even started with saying that I was sidetracking the conversation when I was actually refocusing it.
If you want to make this an actual discussion, write your point instead of making it a quote ping pong.
Sure, if you are interested in my personal opinion I will gladly share. Just to be sure we are on the same page: we are talking about why the new right and conservatives are able to reach young men and where and why progressives fail to do so? Agree or did I miss something?
Yes.
We live in a time where everything is changing rapidly, which includes gender roles in society. Those stayed rather stable over longer periods of time, but industrialization and two consecutive world wars changed western societies rather drastically. Women became rather completely independent of men in economical aspects and simultaneously pushed for more rights and participation. But this also changed the relationship dynamic and what women seek in a relationship. While previous generation could look at their parents for role models, newer generation had to come up with their own. At the same time over the last 20 years people (in the west) started to grow up in a less certain and secure world. While at the same time internet arrived and changed a lot of ways we interact with other people, while at the same time providing populist with a perfect tool to reach their audience.
So to put it together, we live in a completely different and much more complex world form previous generations. It’s not just gender roles people are struggling with. And that is always a perfect time for populist to come around the corner and provide simple solutions. So populist and conman took on themself to sell the old romantic story of better times long gone by (conveniently their audience wasn’t alive back than, so they don’t know) just with modern tools. And easy answers that are sold in an entertaining way will always find buyers. Especially since it’s pushed by algorithms right down peoples throats.
Populism works since Caesar, and there wasn’t Internet back then… Napoléon? Hitler and Mussolini? Do you know how it went in antic democratic Athen? Populism goes with democracy. Internet has nothing to do with it.
The society is more complex than ever? I read it at least twice: in a XVth century book, and in an antiquity one.
But this is beside the subject. You’ve said nothing here to explain why the reactionaries (the alt right, the far right, populism) are benefiting from this more than the left. Are you saying that the left can’t win? Are you saying that we should shut down Internet?
You need to go farther in your analysis. There always were political forces opposing each other. The progressists were wining for women until recently. Why is it changing when young are so much more informed and educated than people were 50 years ago?
Populism benefits from new media since it offers easy solutions. While at same time it takes time for society to develop new rules and individuals to learn to handle new media. More complex ideas also need more time to be translated in a way relatable and entertaining to new audience.
Why men are seemingly more succeptable to the rightwing propaganda than women? Maybe because rightwing ideology has rather little to offer women even on populist level.
But than again you don’t seem to be interested in engaging with my arguments. So I will stop waisting my time.
What is this argument? I’m trying to understand. Here you’re not giving an argument though, merely an analysis. You don’t say anything about what’s possible about the problem. Except maybe explaining more and better then?
Men have nothing to win out of the Conservative ideology btw. It’s very harmful to them. Both physically and psychologically. But people don’t choose an ideology after a cost/benefit analysis anyway.
Last time: rightwing populism offers easy solutions to complex problems of modern world ( like for example gender: conservatives say there are two and don’t bother thinking more about that topic). Modern media allows for easy spread of populism ( algorithms pushing media that creates engagement and creating information bubbles). The right wing populism offers men a clear role and place in society. Right wing populism also offers a clear role for women in society, but it’s almost as bad as a deal as immigrants get. Progressive and feminism also offers solutions to modern problem, but they are more complex. ( For example a more complex understanding of what gender ist). Complex ideas are more difficult to sell.
If you feel like engaging with my analysis/argument/greating card what ever you call it, you are welcome otherwise have a nice day.
Now that’s where we disagree, unless there are things you didn’t say: progressives and feminism don’t offer solutions to modern problems IMO.
And that’s what I’m basically saying and asking you from the beginning. If there are solutions proposed, what are they?