Wow, you really are a centrist. Sorry for doubting you.
Assuming you’re serious, no; they’re talking about how the entire socioeconomic system is designed to give white people a leg up over everyone else. Even at the bottom of the ladder, a white person has more options than a person of color.
Polite counterpoint: segregation laws, housing zoning restrictions, and ugly laws.
Even though these have been repealed, even today their echoes are felt. And in many cases, they are still unofficially enforced (especially the housing).
If you want a more modern counterpoint, then look no further than the issues currently surrounding textured hair. Banning African Americans from having traditional hairstyles, forcing anyone who wants to learn how to do traditional braiding to go through months of expensive ‘official beauty courses’ and get a license, and even making them use products to force their hair to be more like the hair of caucasians.
Yes, it may be a ‘minor’ example compared to forcing people of color to use different entryways and drinking fountains, but that is how it goes for people of color: no longer is it one or two big laws, but a whole slew of subtle discrimination and tiny laws chipping away at them wherever they go and whatever they try to do. A death of a thousand cuts, so to speak. Add that on top of poverty, or chronic illness, or disability, and I’m sure you can see climbing up the ladder is much, much harder.
I know it is hard to walk a mile in the shoes of another, but you may want to take a moment to really, deeply look into what they have to put up with every day of their lives just for having skin that isn’t lily-white. Or for being disabled, or of a gender minority, or really anything else that isn’t straight, white, and male, for that matter.
It is—for regular hairdressers, since they have to work with dangerous chemicals and such. But for a woman who only wants to sell her services at braiding textured hair, they still force her to go through the full beautician school and licensing and fees. That’s just plain stupid (and discrimination).
It was put in place simply to dissuade women of color from offering services to other women of color, and seriously, fuck that. In fact, several courts have agreed and allowed the women who sued over it to simply pay for a regular business license.
But they still had to go to court for it. Yet another inconvenience, another roadblock they have to spend time and money clearing.
Could it be that the administration staff at whichever state department like health or some licensing office are just ignorant to the culture? Maybe they didn’t understand?
If they sued and got the required training down, then I’m guessing the health groups aren’t worried about lice or some other thing.
I can only speak from limited experience, which is why I ask things instead of assuming, but I haven’t met any state policy people here that would intentionally try to keep women of color from owning businesses. There are all types of people in those state departments, at least here.
I would think it would be the opposite. If you enable people to open businesses, you create opportunities to remove negative life conditions.
Maybe there’s an aspect of ‘well everyone else has to do that requirement’, so we’re treating people the same. That wouldnt seem like discrimination if it was only thought out of ignorance of what the service actually entails.
How’s your area and government? You think there’s still old rich white men trying to road block? I feel like those dinosaurs would be dying off. Edit, as where I work, any hint of that attitude would get you destroyed. As it should be.
Second edit, I submit more proof people are ignorant of certain cultural things:
We have a niece that is mixed African and Guatemalan descent from her parents. When she stays with us, we have a really hard time doing anything with her hair, cuz we don’t have any other products nor the knowledge. We had to ask a couple of people, which makes you feel real dumb, but it’s a simple thing.
Okay… I guess I need to be simple, direct, and plain with you.
The bottom of the hole is much deeper for a PoC or a disabled person than for someone who is not. And climbing out of that hole is much harder for them than for someone who is not.
Not really true, it’s just that your socioeconomic caste is the biggest deciding factor by far in your chances to climb up that ladder. Poor white people who then become “successful” economically do exist, and the fact that they exist is used as a massive propoganda point by conservatives, but it’s exceedingly rare and it’s not something a majority can achieve even if they’re the hardest workers on the planet… but to poor non-white immigrants, the poor white guy’s chance of succeeding seems extraordinarily high in comparison, because given the same opportunities the nonwhite immigrant just won’t have access to most of them. Same goes for a black woman, or a trans person, or someone with an invisible or clearly visible disability.
Sure, “rock bottom” is a permanent state of being for many people that get there, but different peoples’ “rock bottom” is worse than others (on average) regardless of that. As a white person who’s disabilities are pretty invisible, I can often camoflauge myself as one of the “upper castes” and enjoy many of the same benefits and assumptions as a richer white person might, the same isn’t as true for someone who is latino or very outwardly disabled presenting or something. The class divide, despite what a lot of people would try to convince you, is not the only problem, nor is it the root of all other socioeconomic inequality (though it does exacerbate it).
Not really true, it’s just that your socioeconomic caste is the biggest deciding factor by far in your chances to climb up that ladder.
I would say that both are true at the same time. The bottom of the ladder is on-the-streets homelessness, which is notoriously hard to break out of. Even just getting a bank account is hard enough because you don’t have an address or often even ID
I’m driving but if I recall this video has a quote talking about how if you haven’t had the experience of living a quote unquote regular American life then how are you going to even want it and I feel like I relate to that.
The difference is that you have a choice and many groups are having that choice made for them.
You can be on the fence about anything, but remember the devil owns the fence.
Are you talking about voting when you say choice?
Wow, you really are a centrist. Sorry for doubting you.
Assuming you’re serious, no; they’re talking about how the entire socioeconomic system is designed to give white people a leg up over everyone else. Even at the bottom of the ladder, a white person has more options than a person of color.
The bottom of the ladder is the bottom of the ladder. Once you’re there, there are basically no ways up.
Polite counterpoint: segregation laws, housing zoning restrictions, and ugly laws.
Even though these have been repealed, even today their echoes are felt. And in many cases, they are still unofficially enforced (especially the housing).
If you want a more modern counterpoint, then look no further than the issues currently surrounding textured hair. Banning African Americans from having traditional hairstyles, forcing anyone who wants to learn how to do traditional braiding to go through months of expensive ‘official beauty courses’ and get a license, and even making them use products to force their hair to be more like the hair of caucasians.
Yes, it may be a ‘minor’ example compared to forcing people of color to use different entryways and drinking fountains, but that is how it goes for people of color: no longer is it one or two big laws, but a whole slew of subtle discrimination and tiny laws chipping away at them wherever they go and whatever they try to do. A death of a thousand cuts, so to speak. Add that on top of poverty, or chronic illness, or disability, and I’m sure you can see climbing up the ladder is much, much harder.
I know it is hard to walk a mile in the shoes of another, but you may want to take a moment to really, deeply look into what they have to put up with every day of their lives just for having skin that isn’t lily-white. Or for being disabled, or of a gender minority, or really anything else that isn’t straight, white, and male, for that matter.
Is this your field? I figured making people do some form of certification was more for the purposes of hygiene and preventing diseases.
It is—for regular hairdressers, since they have to work with dangerous chemicals and such. But for a woman who only wants to sell her services at braiding textured hair, they still force her to go through the full beautician school and licensing and fees. That’s just plain stupid (and discrimination).
It was put in place simply to dissuade women of color from offering services to other women of color, and seriously, fuck that. In fact, several courts have agreed and allowed the women who sued over it to simply pay for a regular business license.
But they still had to go to court for it. Yet another inconvenience, another roadblock they have to spend time and money clearing.
Could it be that the administration staff at whichever state department like health or some licensing office are just ignorant to the culture? Maybe they didn’t understand?
If they sued and got the required training down, then I’m guessing the health groups aren’t worried about lice or some other thing.
I can only speak from limited experience, which is why I ask things instead of assuming, but I haven’t met any state policy people here that would intentionally try to keep women of color from owning businesses. There are all types of people in those state departments, at least here.
I would think it would be the opposite. If you enable people to open businesses, you create opportunities to remove negative life conditions.
Maybe there’s an aspect of ‘well everyone else has to do that requirement’, so we’re treating people the same. That wouldnt seem like discrimination if it was only thought out of ignorance of what the service actually entails.
How’s your area and government? You think there’s still old rich white men trying to road block? I feel like those dinosaurs would be dying off. Edit, as where I work, any hint of that attitude would get you destroyed. As it should be.
Second edit, I submit more proof people are ignorant of certain cultural things:
We have a niece that is mixed African and Guatemalan descent from her parents. When she stays with us, we have a really hard time doing anything with her hair, cuz we don’t have any other products nor the knowledge. We had to ask a couple of people, which makes you feel real dumb, but it’s a simple thing.
Why you say counterpoint when you agree and say same stuff?
Okay… I guess I need to be simple, direct, and plain with you.
The bottom of the hole is much deeper for a PoC or a disabled person than for someone who is not. And climbing out of that hole is much harder for them than for someone who is not.
Not really true, it’s just that your socioeconomic caste is the biggest deciding factor by far in your chances to climb up that ladder. Poor white people who then become “successful” economically do exist, and the fact that they exist is used as a massive propoganda point by conservatives, but it’s exceedingly rare and it’s not something a majority can achieve even if they’re the hardest workers on the planet… but to poor non-white immigrants, the poor white guy’s chance of succeeding seems extraordinarily high in comparison, because given the same opportunities the nonwhite immigrant just won’t have access to most of them. Same goes for a black woman, or a trans person, or someone with an invisible or clearly visible disability.
Sure, “rock bottom” is a permanent state of being for many people that get there, but different peoples’ “rock bottom” is worse than others (on average) regardless of that. As a white person who’s disabilities are pretty invisible, I can often camoflauge myself as one of the “upper castes” and enjoy many of the same benefits and assumptions as a richer white person might, the same isn’t as true for someone who is latino or very outwardly disabled presenting or something. The class divide, despite what a lot of people would try to convince you, is not the only problem, nor is it the root of all other socioeconomic inequality (though it does exacerbate it).
I would say that both are true at the same time. The bottom of the ladder is on-the-streets homelessness, which is notoriously hard to break out of. Even just getting a bank account is hard enough because you don’t have an address or often even ID
Good catch. Edited.
I’m driving but if I recall this video has a quote talking about how if you haven’t had the experience of living a quote unquote regular American life then how are you going to even want it and I feel like I relate to that.
https://youtu.be/ThUIOvCH204