You don’t know how to hold 2 concepts at once so there’s little point explaining it again.
Corps / corrupt gov are the source of continued climate change .
Consumers who use petroleum products are responsible for their personal consumption. Same as meat eaters, same as car drivers.
I use gas, plastic, eat meat and drive a car a few times a week. I acknowledge I have a climate impact, and try to take steps to reduce it, but I’m not perfect. I won’t externalize my impact on this planet to anyone else, and hide behind in vogue language regarding “the owner class” as a means of distancing myself from my consumption. I won’t hide my opinion on that either.
That’s what makes me tick. That’s as clear as I can make my position.
If you think I’m a shill or something, ok, good for you. You won. Finish line. Continuing on is harassment and I’m not worried about your opinion of me using the built in report features.
Idk why this got heated this fast, but I’d like to add a normal argument point:
Compared to how much pollution any large scale company makes to even a housing complex, the housing is marginal. You don’t even need to think in battery factories, just regular ol’ warehouses. The amount of plastic they throw out, just to sit somewhere else, is orders of magnitude greater than me packaging my groceries in two bags.
While I could use one plastic bag less a day, sure, but if a warehouse throws out like 2 pallet’s worth of it a day, it’s nothing comparatively!
The argument is valid, that I am also in the statistics. However, why should I reduce the quality of my life if anyone who matters in the statistics just simply doesn’t care?
It’s from another thread, dude followed me. He got banned there.
But absolutely agree. The context of my original discussion was surrounding corporations saying consumers are to blame for climate change, which is obviously wrong. Corporations blocking tech advancement to green alternatives, and corruption of governments for profit is the root issue.
I was teasing out a specific point of they made all that shit for us. The stuff on the pallets wrapped in that plastic is for us. My only point was that we all consume, we are the end of the line. We need to recognize that although the magnitude is very different, we are a variable in the equation.
It’s important to check ignorance via internalization of negative externalities.
You might find my opinion on personal responsibility wrong, and that’s fine. I’m just out here trying to consume less, and acknowledge my impact. (And shared my opinion on an open forum).
You are right that the companies do what they do because we buy their stuff. But they do it in a way that is not enviroment friendly.
What I mean is, whatever happens there will be shops, and there will be a way shipment gets to them, and there will be a place where the cargo gets stored, and there will be a place where the products come from, and a there will be a source where the materials come from and go into the factory.
We only impact the last part, all the way from the tree in a forest to a shelf in a store we have no impact. It was packaged & unpackaged an unhealty number of times, it produced waste that we don’t even know about. Now, imo the problem is that these big corps don’t even consider wasting a dollar to recycle anything. if it’s cheaper (by any margin) to buy it again, it will be bought again, and the used, well, thrown out (into the ocean, or burnt idk). By the time it comes to me deciding between a paper/plastic/bio-plastic(?) bag it doesn’t matter. And the argument that we are the problem because we are still buying it is invalid, because you just simply have to buy food (for example).
I get it tho, if a billion humans all use up 1 plastic bags a day, that’s still 1b plastic bags/day. However, think about the plastic (and everything else) that was used to get that product to the shelfs, even the bags themselves.
Ok now I am convinced by the timings of your posts and mod responses, including private ones that you should not be aware of, that you are a sockpuppet for an activist mod.
You actively seek out conflict with dumbshit hot takes and then use your mod powers/connections to punish those that rise to your bait.
Exactly the same fucking tactic that ruined reddit.
You‘re not wrong about the „consumer wrong for being manipulated“ rhetoric imo. It stands out.
I‘ve worked for a lot of companies that use psychologists to train their sales force and write papers about the best way to manipulate their customers with advertisement. „Happy people drinking alcohol“ for example is not a legitimate marketing claim but brutal manipulation of our desire to feel good and have friends. If you actually take time to think about it, you might puke.
I’m so fucking glad at least one other person in this thread is aware of it.
That said, I’m probably going to be instance banned in an hour or so, that fuckdamn sockpuppet did its job very well and apparently has admin friends.
So, lemmy is likely compromised just as reddit is, pro-corporate spin control accounts working together with instance mods and admins to direct the narrative AWAY from ‘Fuck the corporations’ and always to in-fighting and intra-class warfare.
Lol following me? You’re a treat.
Learn to be responsible for yourself. Start with your behavior and work outwards.
It’s like they went way out of their way to serve as a perfect example of what you just said. Hilarious!
Since your clever little use of the report button means we can’t talk there, I figured we’d bring the conversation here.
I don’t get class traitors like you, and I’m hoping by yelling at you enough I can figure out at least some of how you tick.
So just admitting to platform abuse? Very cool.
You don’t know how to hold 2 concepts at once so there’s little point explaining it again.
Corps / corrupt gov are the source of continued climate change .
Consumers who use petroleum products are responsible for their personal consumption. Same as meat eaters, same as car drivers.
I use gas, plastic, eat meat and drive a car a few times a week. I acknowledge I have a climate impact, and try to take steps to reduce it, but I’m not perfect. I won’t externalize my impact on this planet to anyone else, and hide behind in vogue language regarding “the owner class” as a means of distancing myself from my consumption. I won’t hide my opinion on that either.
That’s what makes me tick. That’s as clear as I can make my position.
If you think I’m a shill or something, ok, good for you. You won. Finish line. Continuing on is harassment and I’m not worried about your opinion of me using the built in report features.
Idk why this got heated this fast, but I’d like to add a normal argument point:
Compared to how much pollution any large scale company makes to even a housing complex, the housing is marginal. You don’t even need to think in battery factories, just regular ol’ warehouses. The amount of plastic they throw out, just to sit somewhere else, is orders of magnitude greater than me packaging my groceries in two bags.
While I could use one plastic bag less a day, sure, but if a warehouse throws out like 2 pallet’s worth of it a day, it’s nothing comparatively!
The argument is valid, that I am also in the statistics. However, why should I reduce the quality of my life if anyone who matters in the statistics just simply doesn’t care?
It’s from another thread, dude followed me. He got banned there.
But absolutely agree. The context of my original discussion was surrounding corporations saying consumers are to blame for climate change, which is obviously wrong. Corporations blocking tech advancement to green alternatives, and corruption of governments for profit is the root issue.
I was teasing out a specific point of they made all that shit for us. The stuff on the pallets wrapped in that plastic is for us. My only point was that we all consume, we are the end of the line. We need to recognize that although the magnitude is very different, we are a variable in the equation.
It’s important to check ignorance via internalization of negative externalities.
You might find my opinion on personal responsibility wrong, and that’s fine. I’m just out here trying to consume less, and acknowledge my impact. (And shared my opinion on an open forum).
You are right that the companies do what they do because we buy their stuff. But they do it in a way that is not enviroment friendly.
What I mean is, whatever happens there will be shops, and there will be a way shipment gets to them, and there will be a place where the cargo gets stored, and there will be a place where the products come from, and a there will be a source where the materials come from and go into the factory.
We only impact the last part, all the way from the tree in a forest to a shelf in a store we have no impact. It was packaged & unpackaged an unhealty number of times, it produced waste that we don’t even know about. Now, imo the problem is that these big corps don’t even consider wasting a dollar to recycle anything. if it’s cheaper (by any margin) to buy it again, it will be bought again, and the used, well, thrown out (into the ocean, or burnt idk). By the time it comes to me deciding between a paper/plastic/bio-plastic(?) bag it doesn’t matter. And the argument that we are the problem because we are still buying it is invalid, because you just simply have to buy food (for example).
I get it tho, if a billion humans all use up 1 plastic bags a day, that’s still 1b plastic bags/day. However, think about the plastic (and everything else) that was used to get that product to the shelfs, even the bags themselves.
Ok now I am convinced by the timings of your posts and mod responses, including private ones that you should not be aware of, that you are a sockpuppet for an activist mod.
You actively seek out conflict with dumbshit hot takes and then use your mod powers/connections to punish those that rise to your bait.
Exactly the same fucking tactic that ruined reddit.
Huh? You can easily review the mod log. You aren’t the main character bud.
If you’re so convinced I’m bad business report me or block me just leave me alone.
Removed by mod
You‘re not wrong about the „consumer wrong for being manipulated“ rhetoric imo. It stands out.
I‘ve worked for a lot of companies that use psychologists to train their sales force and write papers about the best way to manipulate their customers with advertisement. „Happy people drinking alcohol“ for example is not a legitimate marketing claim but brutal manipulation of our desire to feel good and have friends. If you actually take time to think about it, you might puke.
I’m so fucking glad at least one other person in this thread is aware of it.
That said, I’m probably going to be instance banned in an hour or so, that fuckdamn sockpuppet did its job very well and apparently has admin friends.
So, lemmy is likely compromised just as reddit is, pro-corporate spin control accounts working together with instance mods and admins to direct the narrative AWAY from ‘Fuck the corporations’ and always to in-fighting and intra-class warfare.
One issue I see is the extreme language both sides use. I‘d just try to stay constructive and block those who are obvious shills.
This is comical.
Good luck reducing your consumption!