Mandatory military service is slavery. Do not give up your freedom, do not serve corrupted governments and politician. Fight for justice not against it.
No, it is forced labor and indeed a serious infraction on human rights, but it’s by no means slavery. Slaves can be sold and subjected to a bunch of other abuses.
Unlike slavery forced labor can be acceptable in certain conditions. I don’t think conscription in Western countries falls under that. It’s far too expensive (delaying people’s entry to the workforce by a year should cost more than 2% of GDP and you can buy a lot of advanced weaponry with that much money) and in most places getting enough people into the military should be doable by offering more benefits.
But in countries like Ukraine or in the West when we’re talking about things like natuaral disasters it may be necessary to force people to work for the community.
Shooting at people and dropping bombs it’s not work.
Is that all you think military service teaches you?
The community is not the government.
I guess we could discuss the validity of each country’s implementation of democracy , but, at least in theory, the power to govern derives from a mandate from the community. So no, the community is by extension the government.
The article, to which you have linked, concerns a 60 year old critique of the contemporary US educational system. Besides the critique being of dubious relevance, simply due to its age, using it to argue that compulsory education is akin to imprisonment for many is misleading, if not fraudulent. Quite frankly it seems to me, that you linked the first apperarently appropriate hit in your google search.
Have you actually read it? If you had, you could have addressed my arguments, instead of feigning indignation that I hadn’t spent the 10 minutes reading a seemingly superannuated critique of an equally archaic educational system.
Do you make a habit of reading every eight-page Wikipedia article someone randomly links to in an online debate, without said person qualifying the article?
1: Libraries have absolutely been supported with slave labor in the past.
2: Forced labor is forced labor.
3: There is still a difference between a draft to defend your country from a fascist like Putin and being drafted to invade Vietnam. I wouldn’t personally call the first slavery, but the second one is.
I spent 3 years in an army that relied on conscription. I do get it, I think.
I’m fine with a conscientious objector option; this was an option when I joined up and some took it.
I think there’s a huge gulf between being “forced” to join the army (navy/airforce) of a democratic state’s which serves a purpose a of defending the country against attacks vs being forced to join a force which attacks another country or people. I didn’t make the distinction clear so I’m glad you’re calling me out on it. For clarity, then: I’m talking about conscription into a territorial defense force, not an expeditionary aggressor force.
Russia is defending themself from the nazi, israel is defending themself from hamas, france is talking about sending troops to ukraine to defend europe. It’s always the same story. An actual defense conscription would teach people how to throw boiling oil out of their windows, doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen or the goal.
Mandatory military service is slavery. Do not give up your freedom, do not serve corrupted governments and politician. Fight for justice not against it.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-preparedness-the-road-to-universal-slaughter
No, it is forced labor and indeed a serious infraction on human rights, but it’s by no means slavery. Slaves can be sold and subjected to a bunch of other abuses.
Unlike slavery forced labor can be acceptable in certain conditions. I don’t think conscription in Western countries falls under that. It’s far too expensive (delaying people’s entry to the workforce by a year should cost more than 2% of GDP and you can buy a lot of advanced weaponry with that much money) and in most places getting enough people into the military should be doable by offering more benefits. But in countries like Ukraine or in the West when we’re talking about things like natuaral disasters it may be necessary to force people to work for the community.
Shooting at people and dropping bombs it’s not work. The community is not the government.
Is that all you think military service teaches you?
I guess we could discuss the validity of each country’s implementation of democracy , but, at least in theory, the power to govern derives from a mandate from the community. So no, the community is by extension the government.
No i’m sure they teach you how to play the guitar and draw paintings, not using guns designed and built to kill people.
hey now. they also teach you to be phobic of fireworks, driving and falling asleep.
What about compulsory education, is that imprisonment then?
It is for many
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_Miseducation
The article, to which you have linked, concerns a 60 year old critique of the contemporary US educational system. Besides the critique being of dubious relevance, simply due to its age, using it to argue that compulsory education is akin to imprisonment for many is misleading, if not fraudulent. Quite frankly it seems to me, that you linked the first apperarently appropriate hit in your google search.
You are supposed to read the “article” posted before calling it out
According to whom?
Have you actually read it? If you had, you could have addressed my arguments, instead of feigning indignation that I hadn’t spent the 10 minutes reading a seemingly superannuated critique of an equally archaic educational system.
Do you make a habit of reading every eight-page Wikipedia article someone randomly links to in an online debate, without said person qualifying the article?
if you are interested in the argument i encourage you to read the book and check the other references in the wiki page
Shhh shhh, quiet now
Ok. It’s worth adding that in Denmark you can be a conscientious objector and go work in a public library instead.
I mean, there’s slavery and then there’s “working in a public library”. I’m not 100% sure they are the same.
1: Libraries have absolutely been supported with slave labor in the past.
2: Forced labor is forced labor.
3: There is still a difference between a draft to defend your country from a fascist like Putin and being drafted to invade Vietnam. I wouldn’t personally call the first slavery, but the second one is.
If you have slaves working in a library that’s still slavery.
If being told you have certain obligations you must adhere to is “slavery” then, sure, it’s slavery.
You’re also expected to do your homework, tidy up your room, keep under the speed limit, not throw litter.
The world is full of demands on us. Some times the mature thing is just to say “sure, I’ll do my bit”.
I’m not sure you understand what mandatory military service is. You are not expected to do it, if you don’t you get punished and go to jail.
Are you suggesting we jail kids that don’t do their homeworks?
Do you understand that Russia has conscription and it’s forcing people to go to the front? The same thing is happening in Israel
I spent 3 years in an army that relied on conscription. I do get it, I think.
I’m fine with a conscientious objector option; this was an option when I joined up and some took it.
I think there’s a huge gulf between being “forced” to join the army (navy/airforce) of a democratic state’s which serves a purpose a of defending the country against attacks vs being forced to join a force which attacks another country or people. I didn’t make the distinction clear so I’m glad you’re calling me out on it. For clarity, then: I’m talking about conscription into a territorial defense force, not an expeditionary aggressor force.
Russia is defending themself from the nazi, israel is defending themself from hamas, france is talking about sending troops to ukraine to defend europe. It’s always the same story. An actual defense conscription would teach people how to throw boiling oil out of their windows, doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen or the goal.
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Based