So, recently I was talking to a friend and somehow we got to talking about religion and stuff. When I complained that religion is often put on a huge pedestal and that it’s really just a glorified opinion and should be subject to the same criticism as any other opinion, they told me that that was a really hot take.
According to them, belief and religion is more than just an opinion since it’s such a big part of people’s lives. I countered that opinions are also big parts of people’s lives and personalities. I mean, a huge chunk of your personality is based on your opinions, right?
We agreed to disagree but I kept thinking about it. I don’t get why religion shouldn’t just be treated like any other opinion just because people tend to cling to it. I get that it people are emotionally invested but that’s not just the case with religion but other opinions too. I would appreciate your thoughts to help me understand better, is it really a hot take?
Catholic here.
We preach to our kids that Religion is a choice. Above all else, it is the choice to believe in the mysteries (by definition unprovable) issues of faith.
But what you believe isn’t a choice. You can not consciously choose to believe anything, you can only be convinced to believe or convinced, coerced, forced,… to pretend to believe but your actual belief is not under your conscious control.
Catholics believe it to be a choice because we believe in free will, among other things. And we choose to believe in free will as a gift from God.
At which point the argument becomes circular, therefore a choice. You can choose whatever now
People seem to choose to join, or leave, our religion on a regular basis. So as a matter of practicality… I’ve seen people choose and change their beliefs.
As I explained to others on this subject: do you believe that others can manipulate your opinion? If so, you can use those same techniques to manipulate yourself in the mirror. That’s your choice as well.
Even if you are a helpless sheep, you have the advantages of psychological research today to manipulate yourself into choosing your beliefs through simple psychology and mirrors.
Of course people’s opinions and beliefs can change. You just can’t decide to change them. You can obviously e.g. decide to learn more about a subject and as a result of that action your beliefs change but you can not just decide to change what you believe any more than you could decide to grow taller or to have your fingers fall off.
You’ve never convinced someone else to change their opinion?
And have you never looked in the mirror to do the same to change your own opinion?
It’s simple psychology. Not even religion. Arguments aren’t always the most convincing, that’s why we have other words (ex gaslighting) where psychological tricks are used to change someone’s beliefs even outside of facts.
Just… Do that. To yourself. Done. There are numerous documented psychological tricks and operations you can do to people.
Okay, let me try.
Yes, I have gotten myself to change my opinion. Many times, actually. I usually am confronted with an opinion I have by someone or something. Then I question the validity of that opinion, do some research, find out stuff I didn’t know and form a new opinion based on the information I just acquired. That happens frequently.
What doesn’t happen is this: “I think electric motors are more energy efficient. Hold on, no, never mind, now I think that combustion engines are more energy efficient.” That’s not how opinions or beliefs work.
The only way for you to form a new belief or opinion is via new knowledge and information. Why would your beliefs and opinions change, when the information they are based on doesn’t?
Catholics believe that fundamental issues of Faith are unprovable by logic.
You’ve made the choice not to believe in a matter of faith without proof. I have decided to believe despite no proof and a well understanding that there never will be proof.
That’s really all there is too it.
Sorry, but all my alarm bells are ringing when I read this. It sounds like something you would say if you don’t want to admit to indoctrinating your kids.
I really don’t see a preacher give a disclaimer like “Just FYI: You don’t have to believe a word I’m about to say. There’s no actual evidence for anything I’ll tell you. It’s actually partially disproven. We still believe it, though. But, again, just because all of us here believe it, doesn’t mean you have to. Of course we all want you to believe it too. Your parents brought you here for a reason but feel free to not believe us. Totally fine.”
Come on, as if. Furthermore, do you really think that young children would understand what you mean? I doubt you would have a non-believer come in and explain their beliefs and how the world actually works and have your children pick, right? Also, do you really think that a kid who is put in a room by the people they trust most, their parents, and is told stuff that everyone there, including their parents, agrees with would get what you mean with “choice”? No, they just follow their parents’ example.
Obviously I don’t know you and if you actually explain to your kids how the world works as proven by science and assure them that your religious beliefs are purely spiritual, that’s cool I guess. I know for a fact, though, that people who do that are a minority so little that they’re statistically insignificant.
Catholics are ‘two truths’, see St. Thomas Aquinas. Science is one path to truth. God and faith are another. If both are true, then any (seeming) contradiction must be a human error, a misunderstanding that deeper study (either of faith or of science) will eventually reveal the truth and let both sides agree again.
Science has a large component of Catholicism actually. The Catholic monk Mendel discovered genetics and Catholics officially are cool with evolution. (Of course, specific people may disagree but there have been a lot of… Evangelicals… Who seemed to have joined in recent years pushing us to some braindead perspectives).
Nonetheless, the ‘Mysteries’ of Catholic faith, such as the Virgin Birth, the existence of God, etc. Etc. Are all unprovable and unfalsifiable. Given the nature of the core of our faith, it can only be described as a choice.
There is no proof, no logic, no argument to the core issues. It’s simply if you believe or if you don’t believe.