These programs you’re referring to are voluntary, right?
So, the folks who would be against such programs on that basis think that if a(n arguably former) nazi enters the group not yet fully free of the bigotry they’ve taken concrete steps to overcome and says something, say, anti-semitic, if the program doesn’t kick them out on a zero-tolerance policy, then the program is supporting (or at least insufficiently condemning) anti-semitism?
Edit: on rereading, I get the feeling you’re saying something more like some people think having anything to do with (even recovering) nazis is tacit complicity or something.
You have to keep in mind, this is about protecting people’s health and lives.
And just to be clear, Nazis aren’t people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes. Nazis hurt and kill people. If an organisation manages to help a neo-nazi leave their gang, but that person still holds some anti-semitic views, that’s still a win and anyone who disagrees has some weird priorities in my view…
Would it be better if that person completely dropped those views? Of course, but I prefer a rambling racist 100 times to a neo-nazi throwing molotovs into a refugee home or attacking people in general.
Nazis aren’t people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes. Nazis hurt and kill people.
Agreed. Wasn’t trying to say otherwise. But I’d think recovering nazis are frequently “people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes.” I’ve known people who have deconverted from both mainstream religions and cults who have needed support in the transition out, and those folks were “kindof brainwashed but working on it.” And I don’t think nazi groups are entirely dissimilar from cults.
I don’t remember which episode specifically, but I remember Ian Danskin (“Innuendo Studios” on YouTube and creator of “The Alt-Right Playbook” series) making some points about how it’s good to have spaces meant for people who are “kindof a nazi, but working on it.” (He also said those spaces need to be kept well away from safe spaces for marginalized groups, which of course makes sense.)
But I’d think recovering nazis are frequently “people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes.”
Sure, or racist stuff. But antisemitism, racism and sexism are unfortunately not just limited to nazis, there are plenty of other people who say anti semitic, racist, homophobic and sexist stuff.
And I don’t like it when people call all racists nazis because in my view, a Nazi is a specific and extreme version of racist. And of course all forms of racism are bad, but some are way way worse than others.
Some view anything less than outright shunning as coddling these viewpoints.
These programs you’re referring to are voluntary, right?
So, the folks who would be against such programs on that basis think that if a(n arguably former) nazi enters the group not yet fully free of the bigotry they’ve taken concrete steps to overcome and says something, say, anti-semitic, if the program doesn’t kick them out on a zero-tolerance policy, then the program is supporting (or at least insufficiently condemning) anti-semitism?
Edit: on rereading, I get the feeling you’re saying something more like some people think having anything to do with (even recovering) nazis is tacit complicity or something.
You have to keep in mind, this is about protecting people’s health and lives.
And just to be clear, Nazis aren’t people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes. Nazis hurt and kill people. If an organisation manages to help a neo-nazi leave their gang, but that person still holds some anti-semitic views, that’s still a win and anyone who disagrees has some weird priorities in my view…
Would it be better if that person completely dropped those views? Of course, but I prefer a rambling racist 100 times to a neo-nazi throwing molotovs into a refugee home or attacking people in general.
Agreed. Wasn’t trying to say otherwise. But I’d think recovering nazis are frequently “people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes.” I’ve known people who have deconverted from both mainstream religions and cults who have needed support in the transition out, and those folks were “kindof brainwashed but working on it.” And I don’t think nazi groups are entirely dissimilar from cults.
I don’t remember which episode specifically, but I remember Ian Danskin (“Innuendo Studios” on YouTube and creator of “The Alt-Right Playbook” series) making some points about how it’s good to have spaces meant for people who are “kindof a nazi, but working on it.” (He also said those spaces need to be kept well away from safe spaces for marginalized groups, which of course makes sense.)
Sure, or racist stuff. But antisemitism, racism and sexism are unfortunately not just limited to nazis, there are plenty of other people who say anti semitic, racist, homophobic and sexist stuff.
And I don’t like it when people call all racists nazis because in my view, a Nazi is a specific and extreme version of racist. And of course all forms of racism are bad, but some are way way worse than others.