Left wingers, scootch. Let’s have a little talk. You need to go to the range.
Just learn how a rifle or a handgun works, because at the end of the day a fat gravy seal might be coming to kill you or your spouse because you’re gay, or trans, or brown, or black, or anything outside the inbread and brain dead ethno-state dreamt up in the head of fascists who want a return to yee olde nationalism so they can jerk themselves to sleep thinking of their “great leader”.
So learn handling, reloading, unjamming, all kinds of stuff. You don’t need to buy one - though you probably should, along with the means to secure it - but learning and knowing is something you should probably set as a goal.
Gonna be real honest chief, I’m more scared of you going on a rampage because of your gun toting boogie man than I’m scared of your boogie man.
You wanna own a gun? Cool do it. You wanna own 50? I might raise an eyebrow, express a little concern but do it. (Every collector should raise an eyebrow at other collectors, it helps keep us in check). But man when you start sipping that fearaid please stay the fuck away from me. Nothing scarier than a gun owner preparing against an imaginary boogie man.
Did in any way dog whistle some form of left-wing violent revolution? Preparedness alone is a good thing, to be able to defend yourself. Learning how to use a rifle is a good thing, because you live in a perpetual state of gun violence anyways.
As for me? I don’t live in the states. I don’t need a gun. But if I had police killing innocent people like it’s a sport in my surroundings, I would. The US police force is just a couple of steps away from wearing leather boots and knocking on doors. Word to Cop City.
Advocating for people to exercise their right to protect themselves is not advocating of violence. It’s being realistic about where we live, how we live our lives, and who lives by us.
You think you’d have a chance against the government oppression? If there is a terrible revolution and you pose a danger to the government and they really want to kill you, they will not send people after you.
They will send a drone or three, tracking you by your cell phone when you’re traveling by car.
Easy pickings, and you’ll never know what hit you. Your gun is useless for that scenario.
Buddy, the only thing having a gun is going to protect you from is one psychopath coming in to your home trying to kill you. And even then, you’ve got better then 50% odds to kill someone in your own family before you kill that guy.
If you think having a gun will protect you from the police, or the military, you’ve lost your fucking mind.
You simply don’t have the resources to put up that fight, and you never will. The only thing having a gun will do for you there is ensure that you don’t survive your encounter.
I understand where you’re coming from. Obviously, non-violent means of enacting change like voting in reform should be the first choice to get things done.
What options exist when nonviolent means are exhausted though? Your argument is essentially:
“The government has the means to oppress the shit out of us. If it happens to us, there’s no point in fighting back so just roll with it and let it happen. I feel it’s better to have others force a way of life on me that I fundamentally disagree with, than it is to risk my life fighting for what I believe in so myself, my children, and foreseeable future generations can live their lives free of oppression.”
With that, I hope you understand why I and many other disagree with your view.
Buying a gun is a donation to the very worst members of the Republican party and permissive gun laws do far more to enable extremists than dissuade them.
If this bullshit worked, America would already be the safest country on earth by a huge margin.
Buying a gun is a donation to the very worst members of the Republican party and permissive gun laws do far more to enable extremists than dissuade them.
I mean, so is paying taxes? I think equating purchasing any firearm from anyone to financing the republican party isn’t really a sensible claim. It’s not like the profit from every gun sale is going directly to the NRA.
If this bullshit worked, America would already be the safest country on earth by a huge margin.
If gun control laws were feasible in America I wouldn’t have to arm myself to protect my family from a bunch of racist dudes in a militia…
If America was inhabited by reasonable people who would tolerate reasonable gun control laws, I would fully support them. We do not live in that country, nor do I ever foresee us living in that country.
Instead liberals have spent a decade of political effort to die on a hill without making an iota of progress. Guns laws are among the largest drivers of single issue voters to the GOP. Fighting this unwinnable battle has done nothing but drive gun sales and secure easy votes for conservatives.
Plus, even if we did somehow pass legislation through Congress, you really think the vultures on the current supreme Court would really let it stand?
The only way America has ever passed gun control laws is when the “wrong people” armed themselves and started to make “up right citizens” nervous. If you really want gun control, arm yourself and make the “upright citizens” question the wisdom of their own beliefs.
I think equating purchasing any firearm from anyone to financing the republican party isn’t really a sensible claim. It’s not like the profit from every gun sale is going directly to the NRA.
You don’t have to guess. Around $16 million dollars per year of that profit is going to far-right Republicans. It used to only be $8 million a year but for some mysterious reason it doubled in 2012.
Honestly, what more could the far-right possibly ask of their useful pro-gun idiots on the left? They’re allowing fascists and fuckwits to buy all the guns they want and enriching deeply evil groups and giving the state all the excuse they need to execute minorities in the street. Another 6 months of propaganda and you’ll be telling people on social media that it’s heroic to let neonazis finish in your mouth.
Fighting this unwinnable battle has done nothing but drive gun sales and secure easy votes for conservatives.
Not very consistent in your ideals are you? We’ve been waiting 40 years for guns to deliver on all the bullshit promises that gun advocates make. They’re going to stop crime, but the crime rate is functionally identical to the rest of the wealthy world, only with a layer of murder on top. They’re going to stop tyranny, but America is on the brink of fascism. They’re going to save all the minorities, but the most vulnerable groups are openly attacked by politicians and media organizations, with none of the progress made being owed to guns.
You’re here literally trying to drive up gun sales for a battle that isn’t just unwinnable, it’s demonstrably unnecessary.
Plus, even if we did somehow pass legislation through Congress, you really think the vultures on the current supreme Court would really let it stand?
Damn that sucks bro have you tried shooting them with your cool guns?
The only way America has ever passed gun control laws is when the “wrong people” armed themselves and started to make “up right citizens” nervous. If you really want gun control, arm yourself and make the “upright citizens” question the wisdom of their own beliefs.
Oh you mean the Black Panther Party? The people who did the exact thing you’re talking about? The ones who were demonized by the media and executed by the state? The ones whose goals still haven’t been achieved?
I know you’re trying for the slimy pro-gun “gun control is racist” talking point but all you’re really doing is giving an example of a group that committed to exactly what you’re advocating and it didn’t fucking work.
Lol, 8-16 million dollars is a tiny fraction of gun sales in America, you just proved my point.
Honestly, what more could the far-right possibly ask of their useful pro-gun idiots on the left? They’re allowing fascists and fuckwits to buy all the guns they want
My dude, they already have the guns. They already have their people in Congress and in the judicial system, gun laws are not happening. If you could actually pass them, I’d gladly give up my rifle.
very consistent in your ideals are you? We’ve been waiting 40 years for guns to deliver on all the bullshit promises that gun advocates make.
Lol, I’m not trying to solve crime, I’m just protecting my home. Mainly because the state is unwilling to do so.
You’re here literally trying to drive up gun sales for a battle that isn’t just unwinnable, it’s demonstrably unnecessary.
Personal protection is an unwinnable battle?
h you mean the Black Panther Party? The people who did the exact thing you’re talking about? The ones who were demonized by the media and executed by the state? The ones whose goals still haven’t been achieved?
No I mean every weapons prohibition going back to before we were a country has been based on prohibiting people of color from protecting themselves. Free black families weren’t even allowed to own guard dogs, as it made it harder for lynching mobs to have their fun.
slimy pro-gun “gun control is racist”
Can you name a weapons prohibition in America that was not spurred on by race relations in America?
You are just a privileged liberal who has no grasp on anything outside your lily white bubble of comfort your life has afforded you.
I still haven’t heard how exactly you would confront someone who’s trying to do you violence. I know you have no experience being hated for the color of your skin, but I’m sure you have an imagination of sorts. So, how do you talk your way out of a hate crime?
Lol, 8-16 million dollars is a tiny fraction of gun sales in America, you just proved my point.
What point? You barely made one. You claimed it was unfair to claim that gun sales fund Republicans but offered no other source for that money.
As far as I can tell, you’re just limply offering vague “it’s not even that much money” comments, pretending like you’d casually turn down a $15 million per year budget at work.
My dude, they already have the guns. They already have their people in Congress and in the judicial system, gun laws are not happening. If you could actually pass them, I’d gladly give up my rifle.
Yep, and now they’re suckering undesirables into giving them an excuse to use them.
Lol, I’m not trying to solve crime, I’m just protecting my home. Mainly because the state is unwilling to do so
Love that you didn’t say you’re defending people in your home, because you’ve put them at demonstrably more risk.
But that was never really the point anyway was it? You didn’t buy cameras, or motion lights, or alarms, or stronger locks. You bought a rifle. It’s not only less effective as a form of security, it’s not even a good gun for the job.
Personal protection is an unwinnable battle?
It’s a battle that literally only exists in your imagination and you’re sacrificing actual peoples lives for your cringe little hero fantasy where you murder someone for trying to steal your iPad.
No I mean every weapons prohibition going back to before we were a country has been based on prohibiting people of color from protecting themselves.
LOL you absolutely didn’t mean that. You specifically said “gun control” and now you’re trying to wriggle your way out of it with more bullshit.
Black people didn’t shoot their way out of oppression and widespread gun ownership has done absolutely nothing to promote equality, it’s just gotten more people murdered.
You are just a privileged liberal who has no grasp on anything outside your lily white bubble of comfort your life has afforded you.
I’m sure that would have really hurt my feelings if I somehow didn’t know anything about myself or the life I’ve lived. Could you have made it any clearer that you’re trying to self-soothe? You don’t even have a profile picture to go on.
I still haven’t heard how exactly you would confront someone who’s trying to do you violence
And you still haven’t told us how you’re going to shoot the people in your imagination (although I guess the higher suicide risk you’ve opted everyone in your house into might cover it).
I know you have no experience being hated for the color of your skin,
It would almost be worth doxxing myself just to show you how fucking stupid you look claiming to “know” things. Are we really supposed to politely pretend your opinions aren’t worthless as we watch you literally imagine things and then claim to know them as facts?
So, how do you talk your way out of a hate crime?
No, I’m not joining you in your fantasy world, especially when there are actual hate crimes to use. So how should George Floyd have shot his way out of systemic violence? What about Trayvon Martin? Fuck, how about Amir Locke?
Don’t be coy, tell us exactly when they should have drawn their gun and started firing and how they would have lived happily ever after if they’d just let the gun lobby finish in their mouth.
Hey right winger. I did go to the range. I even took gun safety. I still think it’s utterly useless technology for almost everyone on the planet. You are propagating fear rather than diplomacy and good nature.
I don’t think 99 percent of guns need to exist. If we could get help for all those people so hurt by their place where they don’t go mass murder children I would love THAT technology be sold and put on the pedestal guns do.
Because guns have more rights than women. And it’s disgusting. If you think knowing what they do and what they are matters I’m here to tell you, it doesn’t. They still do one thing. End a life and make it easy for anyone to do it.
I’m not a right winger, you goyt. The reason why I promote knowing how to use guns in case you need to protect yourself from the possibility of crazy nationalists and fascists who might be coming to your neighborhood, which makes me exact opposite, you Barney cunt.
At least call me a tankie. That would still also be wrong, but it would at least be at the right side of the political spectrum, ya daft cunt.
Fucking yanks and their broken public education sector.
The reason why I promote knowing how to use guns in case you need to protect yourself from the possibility of crazy nationalists and fascists who might be coming to your neighborhood
Armed with the guns they shouldn’t have been able to buy, but were thanks to pro-gun groups.
Yea. I got my protection. It’s called being smarter than they are. They aren’t doing anything. Look at them with January 6th. They only killed one of their own and took a few statues. They have to fight the government. Which they will lose to.
Yea. I got my protection. It’s called being smarter than they are.
You’re going to out think political violence?
They aren’t doing anything. Look at them with January 6th. They only killed one of their own and took a few statues.
And the Beer Hall Putsch was a failed coup that only ended up killing 15 Nazi… Guess it’s safe to assume that the Nazi went away after that and were never problematic again?
They have to fight the government. Which they will lose to.
Unless…the conservatives get control of the executive again. Then they would have the backing of both the executive, the judicial, and half of the legislative branch to protect them.
It wouldn’t be them fighting the government, in the actually dangerous scenario, it would be us.
So much for that education.
For the actual context of why leftist advocate for self protection you should really read The Death of Democracy by Benjamin Hett, and Setting Sites by Scott Crow.
Death of Democracy goes into detail about how the Weimar Republic (a government designed based off our own) fell to fascism, and how fascism was specifically designed to infiltrate and destroy democracies from within.
Setting Sites is a collection of stories spanning throughout modern history of socialist communities who successfully defended their communities from political violence. It’s a guide on how to set up networks of community based mutual aid and defense, and why it’s important to do so.
I am. I am not being shot at. Neither are most people that aren’t out there asking for violence. Amazing how diplomacy and being calm works amongst adults.
Lol, and how do you suppose I use my wit to avoid the violence of someone who just does like the color of my skin?
Neither are most people that aren’t out there asking for violence.
Do you not understand this is the same rhetoric conservatives use when they hear about rape, “well what was she wearing”?
I’ve literally been in physical altercations with someone I’ve never met or talked to, simply for being in an interracial marriage in the south.
We have friends who are trans or gay, and we are in a state specifically targeting their safety. The community also has a high rate of domestic violence, and our home acts as a community safe house for a number of friends. Unfortunately there are a large number of firearms in my state and you don’t need a license to conceal one. So there’s a good chance the people my friends would be hiding from may be armed.
So how would you handle these situations in an “adult way”?
I still think it’s utterly useless technology for almost everyone on the planet. You are propagating fear rather than diplomacy and good nature.
This claim requires an unrealistic interpretation of reality to make any sense. He isn’t propagating fear, he is responding to a threat. Do you think it’s a smart idea to engage in diplomacy with a person who is armed and views you as sub-human?
don’t think 99 percent of guns need to exist. If we could get help for all those people so hurt by their place where they don’t go mass murder children I would love THAT technology be sold and put on the pedestal guns do.
That’s great, I too wish humans were reasonable and peace loving entities. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the most racist and violent demographics in this country are also the most armed.
Because guns have more rights than women. And it’s disgusting
But what exactly does this have to do with leftist arming themselves against the increasing threat of political violence?
They still do one thing. End a life and make it easy for anyone to do it.
Yeah… That’s kind of the point of any weapon. Your rhetoric seems to be suggesting that we are debating the very idea of if guns should exist as a concept. Not the reality of what to do when a large percent of the population already has them, and are training in groups to utilize them in political or racial violence.
Who is coming at me with arms? Who have I provoked such a response from? It is a fantasy to believe you are that important. People don’t randomly go and fire guns when people aren’t in the middle of their protest or any other people.
Safe to say, gun violence is put on kids because the neck beards have nothing better to do than target those that can’t defend themselves.
Who is coming at me with arms? Who have I provoked such a response from?
Lol, I know this may be hard to accept, but this is not about you. If you have enough privilege to live in an area where people don’t already have preconceptions of criminality based on your race…good for you.
Some of us live in dangerous areas, some of us are not the same color as you, some of us have already experienced racial violence, some of us love people who are being targeted for their sexual preferences.
This is the most privileged take I’ve ever seen on Lemmy, and that’s quite the high bar. You are effectively claiming that any victim of violence must have somehow provoked it.
People don’t randomly go and fire guns when people aren’t in the middle of their protest or any other people.
I guess you’re just ignoring violent hate crimes?
Safe to say, gun violence is put on kids because the neck beards have nothing better to do than target those that can’t defend themselves.
What was that?
target those that can’t defend themselves.
Hmmm, that seems to me like a good reason to be able to defend yourself?
You mean when the guys with guns that are hired to protect the kids without guns didn’t protect anyone? Yea. You are adorable thinking that you convince anyone with such arguments.
You mean when the guys with guns that are hired to protect the kids without guns didn’t protect anyone?
It’s almost like the state apparatus that is supposed to protect is failing in multiple ways? No what does that strawman have to do with mutual aid and protection networks?
The book I was talking about wasn’t about theory, it was accounts of actual events. Often with the primary source being a person who partook or benefited from the mutual aid network.
It’s not really about tactics or personal defense, it’s about how important community building is for disadvantaged groups. About how sometimes similar to your early example, the state fails to protect these groups from radical political violence.
“Who have I provoked such a response from?” hahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha ah yes “if a brownshirt was after me I would simply explain that I am no threat and then the brown shirt would calm down, everyone who died must have done something to provoke the brownshirt” man my guy dude man cease
i dont disagree but unless you are the kind of leftist hoping every 4 years that a socialist will magically pop up on the ballot and fix everything, go enough to the left and you will see many people considering guns as one of the possible outcomes.
You are utilizing cyclical reasoning… They have guns. This isn’t a debate about whether or not they theoretically should have guns, they already have the guns.
Everyone here would prefer if no one had guns, but that’s not the current reality. Nor is it one a person with a gun is going to accept as an answer from a person without a gun.
If your only rebuttal to the use of hard power against you is ethical rhetoric, you’re not going to have a good time.
The same way they came for Gabby Giffords or Paul Pelosi or that pizza parlor owner or all the Democrats in congress on Jan 6th. You’ll need some help when your neighbor has finally heard enough AM radio and decides today’s the day, or when conservative stochastic terrorism is so wide-spread that the cops just can’t keep up with it all.
Let’s see… In this thread we’ve now covered who, how, when, where and why.
Well, good for you for being safe and tucked away from the conservatives. I guess this existential fight does not involve you. So, there should be no reason for you to involve yourself with this discussion about how to defend against them.
You want to lower gun violence? Legalize all drugs.
Don’t see many liquor stores shooting each other up over territory these days do ya?
Maybe the democrats arent serious about lowerung gun violence. Maybe democrats don’t really believe in bodily autonomy. Democrats want to tell me what I can do with my body.
No I don’t need to write a 100,000 word essay on how Republicans are worse. We all know it dipshits.
I know how to handle handguns, rifles and shotguns, even field-stripping. But warfare has changed a lot in the last couple of years and pew pew small arms are useless. Are small arms all that you know? If yes, you are useless.
Left wingers, scootch. Let’s have a little talk. You need to go to the range.
Just learn how a rifle or a handgun works, because at the end of the day a fat gravy seal might be coming to kill you or your spouse because you’re gay, or trans, or brown, or black, or anything outside the inbread and brain dead ethno-state dreamt up in the head of fascists who want a return to yee olde nationalism so they can jerk themselves to sleep thinking of their “great leader”.
So learn handling, reloading, unjamming, all kinds of stuff. You don’t need to buy one - though you probably should, along with the means to secure it - but learning and knowing is something you should probably set as a goal.
Just saying.
Gonna be real honest chief, I’m more scared of you going on a rampage because of your gun toting boogie man than I’m scared of your boogie man.
You wanna own a gun? Cool do it. You wanna own 50? I might raise an eyebrow, express a little concern but do it. (Every collector should raise an eyebrow at other collectors, it helps keep us in check). But man when you start sipping that fearaid please stay the fuck away from me. Nothing scarier than a gun owner preparing against an imaginary boogie man.
Did in any way dog whistle some form of left-wing violent revolution? Preparedness alone is a good thing, to be able to defend yourself. Learning how to use a rifle is a good thing, because you live in a perpetual state of gun violence anyways.
As for me? I don’t live in the states. I don’t need a gun. But if I had police killing innocent people like it’s a sport in my surroundings, I would. The US police force is just a couple of steps away from wearing leather boots and knocking on doors. Word to Cop City.
Good luck. You’ll need it.
Advocating for people to exercise their right to protect themselves is not advocating of violence. It’s being realistic about where we live, how we live our lives, and who lives by us.
Just ignore him. He’s a gaslighting troll. The username is pmmeyourtits… Don’t wish them good luck. I hope you fall into a hole pmmeyourtits.
You first dick nozzle.
https://ani.social/comment/4096885
If you think the threat fascists pose is imaginary, you haven’t been paying attention.
That’s a much more real and tangible threat than whatever the original post was alluding to.
That’s what the Op you replied to was talking about.
I see now that I had missed that part of the comment and I retract my statements. I’ll leave them up for posterity though
Lol, forget January 6th 2021 so soon?
Myanmar?
Iran murdering the protestors?
Who is protecting you? The police?
Nope: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
Forget the police violence of the George floydd protests?
Ya must have a bad memory.
https://ani.social/comment/4096885
Perhaps reading everything someone has said would behoove you before you start insulting them.
You think you’d have a chance against the government oppression? If there is a terrible revolution and you pose a danger to the government and they really want to kill you, they will not send people after you.
They will send a drone or three, tracking you by your cell phone when you’re traveling by car.
Easy pickings, and you’ll never know what hit you. Your gun is useless for that scenario.
Buddy, the only thing having a gun is going to protect you from is one psychopath coming in to your home trying to kill you. And even then, you’ve got better then 50% odds to kill someone in your own family before you kill that guy.
If you think having a gun will protect you from the police, or the military, you’ve lost your fucking mind.
You simply don’t have the resources to put up that fight, and you never will. The only thing having a gun will do for you there is ensure that you don’t survive your encounter.
You forget Waco? Or that police can legally demolish any house they want if they think the guy they want is inside and has a guy? https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2021/11/police-release-name-of-man-fatally-shot-in-16-hour-standoff.html
We need significant reform, not doomers arming themselves to the teeth and looking for an excuse.
I understand where you’re coming from. Obviously, non-violent means of enacting change like voting in reform should be the first choice to get things done.
What options exist when nonviolent means are exhausted though? Your argument is essentially:
“The government has the means to oppress the shit out of us. If it happens to us, there’s no point in fighting back so just roll with it and let it happen. I feel it’s better to have others force a way of life on me that I fundamentally disagree with, than it is to risk my life fighting for what I believe in so myself, my children, and foreseeable future generations can live their lives free of oppression.”
With that, I hope you understand why I and many other disagree with your view.
Buying a gun is a donation to the very worst members of the Republican party and permissive gun laws do far more to enable extremists than dissuade them.
If this bullshit worked, America would already be the safest country on earth by a huge margin.
I mean, so is paying taxes? I think equating purchasing any firearm from anyone to financing the republican party isn’t really a sensible claim. It’s not like the profit from every gun sale is going directly to the NRA.
If gun control laws were feasible in America I wouldn’t have to arm myself to protect my family from a bunch of racist dudes in a militia…
If America was inhabited by reasonable people who would tolerate reasonable gun control laws, I would fully support them. We do not live in that country, nor do I ever foresee us living in that country.
Instead liberals have spent a decade of political effort to die on a hill without making an iota of progress. Guns laws are among the largest drivers of single issue voters to the GOP. Fighting this unwinnable battle has done nothing but drive gun sales and secure easy votes for conservatives.
Plus, even if we did somehow pass legislation through Congress, you really think the vultures on the current supreme Court would really let it stand?
The only way America has ever passed gun control laws is when the “wrong people” armed themselves and started to make “up right citizens” nervous. If you really want gun control, arm yourself and make the “upright citizens” question the wisdom of their own beliefs.
You don’t have to guess. Around $16 million dollars per year of that profit is going to far-right Republicans. It used to only be $8 million a year but for some mysterious reason it doubled in 2012.
Honestly, what more could the far-right possibly ask of their useful pro-gun idiots on the left? They’re allowing fascists and fuckwits to buy all the guns they want and enriching deeply evil groups and giving the state all the excuse they need to execute minorities in the street. Another 6 months of propaganda and you’ll be telling people on social media that it’s heroic to let neonazis finish in your mouth.
Not very consistent in your ideals are you? We’ve been waiting 40 years for guns to deliver on all the bullshit promises that gun advocates make. They’re going to stop crime, but the crime rate is functionally identical to the rest of the wealthy world, only with a layer of murder on top. They’re going to stop tyranny, but America is on the brink of fascism. They’re going to save all the minorities, but the most vulnerable groups are openly attacked by politicians and media organizations, with none of the progress made being owed to guns.
You’re here literally trying to drive up gun sales for a battle that isn’t just unwinnable, it’s demonstrably unnecessary.
Damn that sucks bro have you tried shooting them with your cool guns?
Oh you mean the Black Panther Party? The people who did the exact thing you’re talking about? The ones who were demonized by the media and executed by the state? The ones whose goals still haven’t been achieved?
I know you’re trying for the slimy pro-gun “gun control is racist” talking point but all you’re really doing is giving an example of a group that committed to exactly what you’re advocating and it didn’t fucking work.
Lol, 8-16 million dollars is a tiny fraction of gun sales in America, you just proved my point.
My dude, they already have the guns. They already have their people in Congress and in the judicial system, gun laws are not happening. If you could actually pass them, I’d gladly give up my rifle.
Lol, I’m not trying to solve crime, I’m just protecting my home. Mainly because the state is unwilling to do so.
Personal protection is an unwinnable battle?
No I mean every weapons prohibition going back to before we were a country has been based on prohibiting people of color from protecting themselves. Free black families weren’t even allowed to own guard dogs, as it made it harder for lynching mobs to have their fun.
Can you name a weapons prohibition in America that was not spurred on by race relations in America?
You are just a privileged liberal who has no grasp on anything outside your lily white bubble of comfort your life has afforded you.
I still haven’t heard how exactly you would confront someone who’s trying to do you violence. I know you have no experience being hated for the color of your skin, but I’m sure you have an imagination of sorts. So, how do you talk your way out of a hate crime?
What point? You barely made one. You claimed it was unfair to claim that gun sales fund Republicans but offered no other source for that money.
As far as I can tell, you’re just limply offering vague “it’s not even that much money” comments, pretending like you’d casually turn down a $15 million per year budget at work.
Yep, and now they’re suckering undesirables into giving them an excuse to use them.
Love that you didn’t say you’re defending people in your home, because you’ve put them at demonstrably more risk.
But that was never really the point anyway was it? You didn’t buy cameras, or motion lights, or alarms, or stronger locks. You bought a rifle. It’s not only less effective as a form of security, it’s not even a good gun for the job.
It’s a battle that literally only exists in your imagination and you’re sacrificing actual peoples lives for your cringe little hero fantasy where you murder someone for trying to steal your iPad.
LOL you absolutely didn’t mean that. You specifically said “gun control” and now you’re trying to wriggle your way out of it with more bullshit.
Black people didn’t shoot their way out of oppression and widespread gun ownership has done absolutely nothing to promote equality, it’s just gotten more people murdered.
I’m sure that would have really hurt my feelings if I somehow didn’t know anything about myself or the life I’ve lived. Could you have made it any clearer that you’re trying to self-soothe? You don’t even have a profile picture to go on.
And you still haven’t told us how you’re going to shoot the people in your imagination (although I guess the higher suicide risk you’ve opted everyone in your house into might cover it).
It would almost be worth doxxing myself just to show you how fucking stupid you look claiming to “know” things. Are we really supposed to politely pretend your opinions aren’t worthless as we watch you literally imagine things and then claim to know them as facts?
No, I’m not joining you in your fantasy world, especially when there are actual hate crimes to use. So how should George Floyd have shot his way out of systemic violence? What about Trayvon Martin? Fuck, how about Amir Locke?
Don’t be coy, tell us exactly when they should have drawn their gun and started firing and how they would have lived happily ever after if they’d just let the gun lobby finish in their mouth.
Hey right winger. I did go to the range. I even took gun safety. I still think it’s utterly useless technology for almost everyone on the planet. You are propagating fear rather than diplomacy and good nature.
I don’t think 99 percent of guns need to exist. If we could get help for all those people so hurt by their place where they don’t go mass murder children I would love THAT technology be sold and put on the pedestal guns do.
Because guns have more rights than women. And it’s disgusting. If you think knowing what they do and what they are matters I’m here to tell you, it doesn’t. They still do one thing. End a life and make it easy for anyone to do it.
I’m not a right winger, you goyt. The reason why I promote knowing how to use guns in case you need to protect yourself from the possibility of crazy nationalists and fascists who might be coming to your neighborhood, which makes me exact opposite, you Barney cunt.
At least call me a tankie. That would still also be wrong, but it would at least be at the right side of the political spectrum, ya daft cunt.
Fucking yanks and their broken public education sector.
Armed with the guns they shouldn’t have been able to buy, but were thanks to pro-gun groups.
Yea. I got my protection. It’s called being smarter than they are. They aren’t doing anything. Look at them with January 6th. They only killed one of their own and took a few statues. They have to fight the government. Which they will lose to.
So much for that education.
You’re going to out think political violence?
And the Beer Hall Putsch was a failed coup that only ended up killing 15 Nazi… Guess it’s safe to assume that the Nazi went away after that and were never problematic again?
Unless…the conservatives get control of the executive again. Then they would have the backing of both the executive, the judicial, and half of the legislative branch to protect them.
It wouldn’t be them fighting the government, in the actually dangerous scenario, it would be us.
For the actual context of why leftist advocate for self protection you should really read The Death of Democracy by Benjamin Hett, and Setting Sites by Scott Crow.
Death of Democracy goes into detail about how the Weimar Republic (a government designed based off our own) fell to fascism, and how fascism was specifically designed to infiltrate and destroy democracies from within.
Setting Sites is a collection of stories spanning throughout modern history of socialist communities who successfully defended their communities from political violence. It’s a guide on how to set up networks of community based mutual aid and defense, and why it’s important to do so.
I am. I am not being shot at. Neither are most people that aren’t out there asking for violence. Amazing how diplomacy and being calm works amongst adults.
Lol, and how do you suppose I use my wit to avoid the violence of someone who just does like the color of my skin?
Do you not understand this is the same rhetoric conservatives use when they hear about rape, “well what was she wearing”?
I’ve literally been in physical altercations with someone I’ve never met or talked to, simply for being in an interracial marriage in the south.
We have friends who are trans or gay, and we are in a state specifically targeting their safety. The community also has a high rate of domestic violence, and our home acts as a community safe house for a number of friends. Unfortunately there are a large number of firearms in my state and you don’t need a license to conceal one. So there’s a good chance the people my friends would be hiding from may be armed.
So how would you handle these situations in an “adult way”?
This claim requires an unrealistic interpretation of reality to make any sense. He isn’t propagating fear, he is responding to a threat. Do you think it’s a smart idea to engage in diplomacy with a person who is armed and views you as sub-human?
That’s great, I too wish humans were reasonable and peace loving entities. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the most racist and violent demographics in this country are also the most armed.
But what exactly does this have to do with leftist arming themselves against the increasing threat of political violence?
Yeah… That’s kind of the point of any weapon. Your rhetoric seems to be suggesting that we are debating the very idea of if guns should exist as a concept. Not the reality of what to do when a large percent of the population already has them, and are training in groups to utilize them in political or racial violence.
Who is coming at me with arms? Who have I provoked such a response from? It is a fantasy to believe you are that important. People don’t randomly go and fire guns when people aren’t in the middle of their protest or any other people.
Safe to say, gun violence is put on kids because the neck beards have nothing better to do than target those that can’t defend themselves.
Lol, I know this may be hard to accept, but this is not about you. If you have enough privilege to live in an area where people don’t already have preconceptions of criminality based on your race…good for you.
Some of us live in dangerous areas, some of us are not the same color as you, some of us have already experienced racial violence, some of us love people who are being targeted for their sexual preferences.
This is the most privileged take I’ve ever seen on Lemmy, and that’s quite the high bar. You are effectively claiming that any victim of violence must have somehow provoked it.
I guess you’re just ignoring violent hate crimes?
What was that?
Hmmm, that seems to me like a good reason to be able to defend yourself?
You mean when the guys with guns that are hired to protect the kids without guns didn’t protect anyone? Yea. You are adorable thinking that you convince anyone with such arguments.
It’s almost like the state apparatus that is supposed to protect is failing in multiple ways? No what does that strawman have to do with mutual aid and protection networks?
The book I was talking about wasn’t about theory, it was accounts of actual events. Often with the primary source being a person who partook or benefited from the mutual aid network.
It’s not really about tactics or personal defense, it’s about how important community building is for disadvantaged groups. About how sometimes similar to your early example, the state fails to protect these groups from radical political violence.
“Who have I provoked such a response from?” hahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha ah yes “if a brownshirt was after me I would simply explain that I am no threat and then the brown shirt would calm down, everyone who died must have done something to provoke the brownshirt” man my guy dude man cease
Cause that happened. Dumbass
i dont disagree but unless you are the kind of leftist hoping every 4 years that a socialist will magically pop up on the ballot and fix everything, go enough to the left and you will see many people considering guns as one of the possible outcomes.
And who am I going to need the gun for?
Yea. You didn’t think that far ahead.
The conservatives who want you and your family to not exist.
Right. And how are they coming for me exactly?
You are utilizing cyclical reasoning… They have guns. This isn’t a debate about whether or not they theoretically should have guns, they already have the guns.
Everyone here would prefer if no one had guns, but that’s not the current reality. Nor is it one a person with a gun is going to accept as an answer from a person without a gun.
If your only rebuttal to the use of hard power against you is ethical rhetoric, you’re not going to have a good time.
Thanks
The same way they came for Gabby Giffords or Paul Pelosi or that pizza parlor owner or all the Democrats in congress on Jan 6th. You’ll need some help when your neighbor has finally heard enough AM radio and decides today’s the day, or when conservative stochastic terrorism is so wide-spread that the cops just can’t keep up with it all.
Let’s see… In this thread we’ve now covered who, how, when, where and why.
No. You covered people that aren’t me, in a city that isn’t mine, in a situation I’m not in and neither are most people.
Well, good for you for being safe and tucked away from the conservatives. I guess this existential fight does not involve you. So, there should be no reason for you to involve yourself with this discussion about how to defend against them.
I can’t predict exactly, but the OP article talks about some of these people.
In their fantasy. When does that happen to people just minding their own business?
one example i can think of is when those people decide to make their fantasy a reality, they are gettong ever crazier
You want to lower gun violence? Legalize all drugs.
Don’t see many liquor stores shooting each other up over territory these days do ya?
Maybe the democrats arent serious about lowerung gun violence. Maybe democrats don’t really believe in bodily autonomy. Democrats want to tell me what I can do with my body.
No I don’t need to write a 100,000 word essay on how Republicans are worse. We all know it dipshits.
I know how to handle handguns, rifles and shotguns, even field-stripping. But warfare has changed a lot in the last couple of years and pew pew small arms are useless. Are small arms all that you know? If yes, you are useless.
How’d Afghanistan go?
How is Ukraine going?
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American here. Those murdering wakos are a far more likely threat to people than the military.
Damn, it told me that message was deleted.
For sure, and I’m almost certain I said that I’d have a gun too, if I was an American.