See, I find this take unironically fascinating, because I actually, truly expected some Elon fanboys to show up in this thread, attacking me for using a “slur” against white people, and crying “bigotry against any people is wrong” at my implication that there are too many white people in Iowa.
I genuinely still expect that might happen.
So if they do show up, I guess you can fight with them about whether my post is anti-white or anti-black. I’ll just be depressed. All I know for sure is that Elon himself would NEVER be caught implying that there are too many white people ANYWHERE. Not even as the most lighthearted of jokes (not that he has a sense of humor, anyway).
okay this makes sense, apologies if i am coming off as acerbic i just clearly see this post as being more of an attack than other people are finding it. making an effort to understand your perspective here
what is your defense of comparing figure skating to airplane food and calling it shitty unless drunk? i guess if this post didn’t mention those two elements i might not have had the knee jerk reaction i did, but that language is pretty insulting to a performance art which i find to be actually incredibly beautiful and moving? (speaking to your example of #oscarssowhite, no id never jump down its throat because it does not attack the art as a whole, where this meme does.) and i guess i am basing this off other historical performance arts where people of color as dismissed for their contributions simply for existing in a perceived white space.
for example, rock-n-roll, being a vast majority white space despite literally being founded by Black American artists. from what i understand, the historical demonization of rock came out of racism, demonization of Black people, to such a degree that when rock finally reached mainstream the Black artists who had founded the sound were all but surgically removed from history, and laughed at for “failing to hold on to” what they created.
does insulting the artists of figure skating as a whole because of its whiteness not also devalue the Black community within it to you? your trivialization of Asian individuals in the scene also perhaps contributes to my perception that you think these people’s participation are an accident, or somehow “don’t count.”
whatever you answer, i’ll retract my original criticisms and apologize. 9/10 meme with the only point off because i think figure skating is actually pretty fucking dope. :)
edit: sorry if i can’t see your comments right away i have all nsfw instances blocked, hope this is understandable lol
Hey, no worries. I understand your criticism, too. For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t ever disparage a whole sport/artform/pastime/etc in any serious context.
And I’m also not really saying that Iowa is pointless.
It’s exaggeration, for humor.
On a side note, I actually also have some HIGHLY complex feelings about figure skating, as it relates to race, gender roles, and especially its complicated (and often problematic) relationship with the gay community. My opinions are vastly too complex to really go over, in the short time I have to make this reply, but I’ll give a little bit of a summary. It seems obvious to me that figure skating is one of those spaces where it has been a combined shelter, prison, and minefield, for gay men. I’m not gay AND I have only ever seen figure skating on TV, but I have seen some problematic stuff.
On the one hand, figure skating has been stereotyped as a “gay sport,” and any man who takes part in it has to be prepared to be mocked and attacked. On the other hand, this didn’t mean that gay men who did go into figure skating had any more of an opportunity to be accepted as gay, just by being in that world. For the majority of the sport’s history, they had to hide in the closet, couldn’t talk about their sexuality on camera, etc, for fear of having their careers destroyed. Maybe the coaches, fellow athletes, etc, inside the actual sport were more accepting overall, but I’m certain there were always other individuals who were NOT safe people to reveal yourself to. Like theater and some of the other arts, I see it as a kind of sequined prison, where there were always threats hovering around everyone.
In the modern era, it has clearly gotten better…but celebration and pride can also lead to more stereotyping and palpable tension. Even from a casual, just-watches-during-the-Olympics level of viewership, it’s clear to me that men feel pressure to quickly confirm “yes, I am” or “no, I’m not,” as soon as they attain any prominence. Straight figure skaters tend to VERY QUICKLY mention girlfriends or wives, when they’re interviewed. Gay figure skaters tend to immediately mention boyfriends, or just talk about their sexuality. Like I said, I’m just basing this on what I’ve seen and inferred. But it’s clear to me that “the gay issue” gets in the way of the rest of the sport, and I’m sure that’s frustrating to people who are in it, as a sport/artform, and just want to focus on that.
And that’s without even getting into the the fact that figure skating is huge in RUSSIA, as well as other former Soviet nations, where attitudes (and laws) regarding gay rights are, ya know, barbaric and dangerous. On that side of the world, men in figure skating are expected to bring medals home to their countries by being beautiful on the ice, but without ever looking gay.
Wow, I did go ahead and type a whole wall of text about that, even though I said I was just going to summarize. Anyway, the point is that I’d never make a meme about any of what I just said. It’s too serious. It’s too potentially harmful.
On the other hand, if I make a joke about having to have a couple drinks to enjoy figure skating, I don’t think anyone in the sport is going to get really insulted. It’s just a matter of opinion. I’m a massive sports fan, but I just don’t happen to like that sport. I love ice hockey, and not just for its violent aspects, but for its display of grace and skill. But if someone said “meh, I have to get drunk or I can’t even watch that,” I’m fine with it. I mean, they do sell alcohol at every hockey venue I’ve ever heard of.
Anyway, hope you have a good day. I really and truly respect you for being so thoughtful about your whole response, and your willingness to reexamine your position. If Lemmy keeps attracting quality users like you, it won’t matter if it takes a long time to grow as big as Reddit.
hey you seem based. keep it up. my whole account was created with the goal of distilling these complex topics into the stupid little meme formats that work effectively in rhetorical fashion to get real positive social outcomes. check it out if that’s also interesting to you.
knowing that you care about the sport is a huge relief lol. sorry i genuinely thought you were posting edgelord bait at first. it took me a few rounds of discussion to come around. and i appreciate the grace it took to accept my apology after all that.
Right back at ya. And yeah, I really respect the effort of trying to synthesize more serious rhetoric into a meme format. I already see meme exchanges (and internet forums of all kinds, historically) as a modern parallel of people in Roman times, having all kinds of exchanges of public discourse, through graffiti.
It’s a “casual” form of communication, but that doesn’t mean it’s unimportant.
See, I find this take unironically fascinating, because I actually, truly expected some Elon fanboys to show up in this thread, attacking me for using a “slur” against white people, and crying “bigotry against any people is wrong” at my implication that there are too many white people in Iowa.
I genuinely still expect that might happen.
So if they do show up, I guess you can fight with them about whether my post is anti-white or anti-black. I’ll just be depressed. All I know for sure is that Elon himself would NEVER be caught implying that there are too many white people ANYWHERE. Not even as the most lighthearted of jokes (not that he has a sense of humor, anyway).
I hope you can at least fully agree with that.
okay this makes sense, apologies if i am coming off as acerbic i just clearly see this post as being more of an attack than other people are finding it. making an effort to understand your perspective here
what is your defense of comparing figure skating to airplane food and calling it shitty unless drunk? i guess if this post didn’t mention those two elements i might not have had the knee jerk reaction i did, but that language is pretty insulting to a performance art which i find to be actually incredibly beautiful and moving? (speaking to your example of #oscarssowhite, no id never jump down its throat because it does not attack the art as a whole, where this meme does.) and i guess i am basing this off other historical performance arts where people of color as dismissed for their contributions simply for existing in a perceived white space.
for example, rock-n-roll, being a vast majority white space despite literally being founded by Black American artists. from what i understand, the historical demonization of rock came out of racism, demonization of Black people, to such a degree that when rock finally reached mainstream the Black artists who had founded the sound were all but surgically removed from history, and laughed at for “failing to hold on to” what they created.
does insulting the artists of figure skating as a whole because of its whiteness not also devalue the Black community within it to you? your trivialization of Asian individuals in the scene also perhaps contributes to my perception that you think these people’s participation are an accident, or somehow “don’t count.”
whatever you answer, i’ll retract my original criticisms and apologize. 9/10 meme with the only point off because i think figure skating is actually pretty fucking dope. :)
edit: sorry if i can’t see your comments right away i have all nsfw instances blocked, hope this is understandable lol
Hey, no worries. I understand your criticism, too. For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t ever disparage a whole sport/artform/pastime/etc in any serious context.
And I’m also not really saying that Iowa is pointless.
It’s exaggeration, for humor.
On a side note, I actually also have some HIGHLY complex feelings about figure skating, as it relates to race, gender roles, and especially its complicated (and often problematic) relationship with the gay community. My opinions are vastly too complex to really go over, in the short time I have to make this reply, but I’ll give a little bit of a summary. It seems obvious to me that figure skating is one of those spaces where it has been a combined shelter, prison, and minefield, for gay men. I’m not gay AND I have only ever seen figure skating on TV, but I have seen some problematic stuff.
On the one hand, figure skating has been stereotyped as a “gay sport,” and any man who takes part in it has to be prepared to be mocked and attacked. On the other hand, this didn’t mean that gay men who did go into figure skating had any more of an opportunity to be accepted as gay, just by being in that world. For the majority of the sport’s history, they had to hide in the closet, couldn’t talk about their sexuality on camera, etc, for fear of having their careers destroyed. Maybe the coaches, fellow athletes, etc, inside the actual sport were more accepting overall, but I’m certain there were always other individuals who were NOT safe people to reveal yourself to. Like theater and some of the other arts, I see it as a kind of sequined prison, where there were always threats hovering around everyone.
In the modern era, it has clearly gotten better…but celebration and pride can also lead to more stereotyping and palpable tension. Even from a casual, just-watches-during-the-Olympics level of viewership, it’s clear to me that men feel pressure to quickly confirm “yes, I am” or “no, I’m not,” as soon as they attain any prominence. Straight figure skaters tend to VERY QUICKLY mention girlfriends or wives, when they’re interviewed. Gay figure skaters tend to immediately mention boyfriends, or just talk about their sexuality. Like I said, I’m just basing this on what I’ve seen and inferred. But it’s clear to me that “the gay issue” gets in the way of the rest of the sport, and I’m sure that’s frustrating to people who are in it, as a sport/artform, and just want to focus on that.
And that’s without even getting into the the fact that figure skating is huge in RUSSIA, as well as other former Soviet nations, where attitudes (and laws) regarding gay rights are, ya know, barbaric and dangerous. On that side of the world, men in figure skating are expected to bring medals home to their countries by being beautiful on the ice, but without ever looking gay.
Wow, I did go ahead and type a whole wall of text about that, even though I said I was just going to summarize. Anyway, the point is that I’d never make a meme about any of what I just said. It’s too serious. It’s too potentially harmful.
On the other hand, if I make a joke about having to have a couple drinks to enjoy figure skating, I don’t think anyone in the sport is going to get really insulted. It’s just a matter of opinion. I’m a massive sports fan, but I just don’t happen to like that sport. I love ice hockey, and not just for its violent aspects, but for its display of grace and skill. But if someone said “meh, I have to get drunk or I can’t even watch that,” I’m fine with it. I mean, they do sell alcohol at every hockey venue I’ve ever heard of.
Anyway, hope you have a good day. I really and truly respect you for being so thoughtful about your whole response, and your willingness to reexamine your position. If Lemmy keeps attracting quality users like you, it won’t matter if it takes a long time to grow as big as Reddit.
hey you seem based. keep it up. my whole account was created with the goal of distilling these complex topics into the stupid little meme formats that work effectively in rhetorical fashion to get real positive social outcomes. check it out if that’s also interesting to you.
knowing that you care about the sport is a huge relief lol. sorry i genuinely thought you were posting edgelord bait at first. it took me a few rounds of discussion to come around. and i appreciate the grace it took to accept my apology after all that.
Right back at ya. And yeah, I really respect the effort of trying to synthesize more serious rhetoric into a meme format. I already see meme exchanges (and internet forums of all kinds, historically) as a modern parallel of people in Roman times, having all kinds of exchanges of public discourse, through graffiti.
It’s a “casual” form of communication, but that doesn’t mean it’s unimportant.