This is the worst take I’ve ever heard. The concerns are “capitalist targeted advertising” vs “a foreign power abusing American user data to target and push agendas on it’s people”.
I’m not a lemmygrad user. I’m simply stating facts?
There’s literally many recent news articles of Canadians getting in legal trouble from American companies because of the things they posted or things they downloaded.
The Canadian government isn’t handing me over to China or allowing China to come get me.
My comment is not even pro China. I’m just saying that nothing I say or do will allow China to put me in jail. Can’t say the same about America.
You should learn to read. I would prefer no one get my data, but it’s statistically safer for me for China to get it over an American company. However, no one should get it. Fuck shit American companies, fuck shit Chinese companies.
This is actually what I wanted to say to a lot of people. During peace times, allowing a foreign adversary stealing your data is a lot less damaging to your personal freedoms than your own government stealing your data. We need to be wary every time when our own government tries to tries to introduces surveillance laws under the disguise of “national security”.
“Peace times” doesn’t mean much when wars are waged through propagandizing a countries population to promote civil unrest. Russia was doing this for years and look how it changed the country completely in 2016. I’m certain china will be doing the same. I think people vastly underestimate the value of this data, and what a foreign power can do with it. They can subtly shape the future of a country to damage it far worse than some proxy war will.
I’m glad that you brought up the problem of foreign propaganda. I firmly believe the government shouldn’t be there to tell me what kind of views I can and cannot see. Some exceptions already exist such as blatant calls for violence which we already have clear guidelines on. Other than that, government is in no place to regulate speech. What’s the point of beating Russia and China when we become just like them?
Well I don’t use TikTok and couldn’t care less if they get banned. If you actually read the bills that’s getting passed like the RESTRICT act in the US you’d realize it’s not about banning TikTok and it has numerous vague and concerning clauses that infringes on your privacy. My opinion is always have better privacy laws and enforce it equally on all companies. When my government blatantly tries to steal more of my data and pretend they’re actually doing me a favor I’d rather the foreign adversary have it for free.
To each their own. Ideally no company should have those data that can be used for spying by any government. But if I have to choose, I personally fear government overreach more than anything else. We can agree to disagree here.
so war hasn’t broken out, what’s your point? Last time I checked China still isn’t able to send agents to my house to arrest me, but folks here are getting misreported for CSAM to the feds by google scanning their pictures without consent.
So are the same Western democracies… nearly half of the US is too stupid to understand how voting for an orange Mussolini wannabe was a horrible idea. There’s undeniable proof that the CIA interfered with the Brazilian government between 2016 and 2020. Italy is once again on the brink of Fascism.
How is “getting in trouble with American companies” (i.e. getting banned from a platform for breaking their rules) worse than a foreign power trying to influence a countries people? You’re not going to jail for posting dumb bullshit lol
If I pirate Photoshop, Adobe could come for me if they really wanted to. Canada doesn’t care about piracy, you don’t need to use a VPN here, but if the American company Adobe really wanted at me, Canada would not stop them.
If I pirated some Chinese software there their government couldn’t do shit to me.
You know geohot, the guy sued by Sony for hacking the ps3? He was American, but that doesn’t change much. If he was Canadian, he would’ve been fucked just the same. Now if I hacked a Chinese console to enable piracy, literally nothing would happen to me.
If I made a threat on the Presidents life, I would be watched and potentially have American feds knocking on my door. If I threatened China, I would get upvotes and people would laugh.
You’re not really understanding what I’m saying. I’m assuming you’re American? The country where pretty much every massive company operates from? Well, the rest of the world hates that nearly everything we do is funneled back into the US.
Use Windows? MacOS? Android? iOS? Gmail? Outlook? Yahoo? Microsoft Office? Facebook? Instagram? Reddit?.. the list goes on.
Now imagine if 95% of your data was funneled into a different country. I’m sure you’d hate it. Especially with the state of American politics right now. Your country is dangerous.
I’m not American, I’m Canadian, and I never said that I’m cool with their government’s recent developments, but that doesn’t mean the Chinese government collecting and using your data to push it’s agenda on foreign citizens is better, that’s absolutely insane.
And your argument is that you want to freely and openly hack proprietary software and make threats on the US president’s life? Lol what the fuck.
Please tell me where China is pushing their agenda on me? My TikTok is full of American and Canadian creators, talking about technology, science, animals, and comedy. Also a bit of food.
That’s also not my argument, but congrats on missing the point.
If you don’t understand what I’m saying, that’s on you. I’m not having a back and forth about this any longer, I escaped Reddit because of that. You can go back there if you want to argue and mix words with others. I’m not having that.
When they kidnap your fucking neighbours and hold them for fucking extortion of your fucking state, that is China pushing their fucking agenda on you, for fucking fuck’s sake.
When they religiously persecute CANADIAN CITIZENS in fucking CANADIAN TERRITORY, that’s China pushing their agenda on you.
I mean they literally censor and ban creators for anything they deem to be anti-Chinese and then turn around and deny it ever happens, but sure, let’s use your personal anecdotal evidence to make our opinions here.
Mix words? I took direct quotes from your comment lol. Glad you left Reddit because you weren’t clear enough though I guess
I’m not implying anything, I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over? And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data from apps that properly implement E2EE. Even WhatsApp, a Meta product ffs, only hands over limited contact info, and big US tech has been increasingly adding E2EE to their apps and lobbying against backdoor access since the public backlash over the Snowden leaks.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
As you can probably tell from this thread, it’s very easy to say edgy inflammatory like “I’d rather China have my data”, but they rarely back it up with anything other than whatifs.
I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
So am I, but “harder” doesn’t mean “hard”.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over?
You’re confusing government - particularly the executive power - with political parties. Republicans want to manipulate the opinions of their voter base so they can get elected and be bribed by corporations. The FBI/CIA/Whatever-other-agency want to prevent their secrets from leaking, dominate and subjugate certain groups, and control global shifts of power. They, of course, also investigate illegal activities online, but that’s probably a tertiary concern at best.
And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data […]
You missed the very important word “legally”. We know, however, that the FBI doesn’t give a shit about doing things legally.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
Indeed, one is worse - but I don’t believe you’re correct in which one it is. Having LIVED a period of clear PsyOps, both internal and external, as well as seen US “security” agencies meddling with my country’s government, I’ll tell you the US is currently much more dangerous.
You missed the very important word “legally”. We know, however, that the FBI doesn’t give a shit about doing things legally.
You don’t know how end to end encryption works do you? Kinda wasting my time here if you’ve formed such a strong opinion on something you don’t actually understand lol.
No, the problem is Chinese-aligned whataboutism, a hallmark of tankie bullshit. People deflect to American spying to justify Tiktok’s spying, as if people aren’t already mad at Meta, Google, Amazon, and the rest spying on them. On the individual level, one is letting anyone “get away” with spying, so saying Tiktok should “also” be able to get away with spying is complete bullshit. We can be mad about all of these companies spying at us at the same time.
Have you seen anyone respond to criticism about Facebook’s tracking policies with “oh but Tiktok also tracks you so you should be okay with this?” Because I sure haven’t, but it comes up all the time when people discuss Tiktok. It’s just so disingenuous… allow people to discuss topics, we’ll get to shitting on Facebook and Google too, don’t worry. Detracting every Tiktok convo to that just makes you appear as if you’re trying to shove their wrongdoing under the rug.
And if you’re talking about foreign policy, western social medias are already blocked in China out of the same national security concerns that’s behind a potential Tiktok ban. It is extremely dangerous to allow foreign, especially hostile powers to influence your society through the algorithms of a social media, because they have a very clear incentive to make your population elect the worst possible people and sow chaos. This is why a lot of non-western-aligned countries block western social medias, and this is why the west should also block non-western social medias. It wouldn’t be unprecedented.
You are aware thar 'murica, your golden “western democracy”, has meddled in many more elections than China, yes? The CIA has been proven to be connected to TWO Brazilian coups…
Which is why I wouldn’t blame Brazil if they banned American or otherwise western-aligned social medias. But I’m sorry, “we fucked around with others and therefore we shouldn’t ensure our own national security” is a completely lunatic take.
It really isn’t a strawman. There are two ways you can interpret the above meme:
We shouldn’t allow American companies to spy either
We should allow Chinese companies to spy too
Interpretation #1 is one of the coldest takes possible on the internet. Read the room, no one was excusing American companies of spying, and plenty of people are mad about Meta, Twitter, and the rest. Hell, the whole reason most of us are here on Lemmy is because we grew tired of more corporate social medias. The meme format here implies that the point expressed is controversial, and interpretation #1 is objectively non-controversial, so the meme is either stupid or that’s not what it’s saying.
And interpretation #2 is exactly what you just called a strawman here. It’s complete lunacy and borderline bootlicking to suggest that we should allow other companies to also spy on us. And why exactly? Just because you want to see that team “win”, at the expense of all of us losing even more?
But I have to think you’re going with interpretation #2, because of this:
First, neither coup was related to social media.
If those coups weren’t related to social media, why bring them up? We’re discussing social media here. This only makes sense if you’re playing the us vs them of geopolitics, and like, just don’t.
In the end, we want none of these companies to spy on us. And unlike domestic companies or those headquartered in allied countries, social media companies in hostile countries not only pose a risk to individual privacy, they are also a national security risk. Which is why China bans western social medias, and why the west should also ban Chinese social medias. Both of these measures are a net benefit, and neither of these measures precludes taking action against domestic or allied social medias – but unlike Bytedance, which is a Chinese company, western regulation can be enforced far easier against western social medias, and the same can be said about Chinese regulation regarding Chinese social medias.
This is the worst take I’ve ever heard. The concerns are “capitalist targeted advertising” vs “a foreign power abusing American user data to target and push agendas on it’s people”.
Is lemmygrad leaking??
I’m not a lemmygrad user. I’m simply stating facts?
There’s literally many recent news articles of Canadians getting in legal trouble from American companies because of the things they posted or things they downloaded.
The Canadian government isn’t handing me over to China or allowing China to come get me.
My comment is not even pro China. I’m just saying that nothing I say or do will allow China to put me in jail. Can’t say the same about America.
You should learn to read. I would prefer no one get my data, but it’s statistically safer for me for China to get it over an American company. However, no one should get it. Fuck shit American companies, fuck shit Chinese companies.
This is actually what I wanted to say to a lot of people. During peace times, allowing a foreign adversary stealing your data is a lot less damaging to your personal freedoms than your own government stealing your data. We need to be wary every time when our own government tries to tries to introduces surveillance laws under the disguise of “national security”.
“Peace times” doesn’t mean much when wars are waged through propagandizing a countries population to promote civil unrest. Russia was doing this for years and look how it changed the country completely in 2016. I’m certain china will be doing the same. I think people vastly underestimate the value of this data, and what a foreign power can do with it. They can subtly shape the future of a country to damage it far worse than some proxy war will.
For me America is the foreign power. One that keeps murdeing people in my corner of the world.
I’m glad that you brought up the problem of foreign propaganda. I firmly believe the government shouldn’t be there to tell me what kind of views I can and cannot see. Some exceptions already exist such as blatant calls for violence which we already have clear guidelines on. Other than that, government is in no place to regulate speech. What’s the point of beating Russia and China when we become just like them?
You’re about half right. How about just not giving the foreign adversary your data at all?
You don’t NEED TikTok. Nobody does, it’s fucking garbage artificial ADD fuel. Everyone should get rid of it.
Well I don’t use TikTok and couldn’t care less if they get banned. If you actually read the bills that’s getting passed like the RESTRICT act in the US you’d realize it’s not about banning TikTok and it has numerous vague and concerning clauses that infringes on your privacy. My opinion is always have better privacy laws and enforce it equally on all companies. When my government blatantly tries to steal more of my data and pretend they’re actually doing me a favor I’d rather the foreign adversary have it for free.
Well I agree with everything you said there, except for the last 9 words of it.
To each their own. Ideally no company should have those data that can be used for spying by any government. But if I have to choose, I personally fear government overreach more than anything else. We can agree to disagree here.
Peace time?! China is waging a cold war against Western democracies!
so war hasn’t broken out, what’s your point? Last time I checked China still isn’t able to send agents to my house to arrest me, but folks here are getting misreported for CSAM to the feds by google scanning their pictures without consent.
So are the same Western democracies… nearly half of the US is too stupid to understand how voting for an orange Mussolini wannabe was a horrible idea. There’s undeniable proof that the CIA interfered with the Brazilian government between 2016 and 2020. Italy is once again on the brink of Fascism.
Yep no need to worry about china in Canada! You’re so safe there!
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/there-may-be-more-chinese-police-stations-canada-minister-says-2023-05-14/
How is “getting in trouble with American companies” (i.e. getting banned from a platform for breaking their rules) worse than a foreign power trying to influence a countries people? You’re not going to jail for posting dumb bullshit lol
Who said about getting banned?
If I pirate Photoshop, Adobe could come for me if they really wanted to. Canada doesn’t care about piracy, you don’t need to use a VPN here, but if the American company Adobe really wanted at me, Canada would not stop them.
If I pirated some Chinese software
theretheir government couldn’t do shit to me.You know geohot, the guy sued by Sony for hacking the ps3? He was American, but that doesn’t change much. If he was Canadian, he would’ve been fucked just the same. Now if I hacked a Chinese console to enable piracy, literally nothing would happen to me.
If I made a threat on the Presidents life, I would be watched and potentially have American feds knocking on my door. If I threatened China, I would get upvotes and people would laugh.
You’re not really understanding what I’m saying. I’m assuming you’re American? The country where pretty much every massive company operates from? Well, the rest of the world hates that nearly everything we do is funneled back into the US.
Use Windows? MacOS? Android? iOS? Gmail? Outlook? Yahoo? Microsoft Office? Facebook? Instagram? Reddit?.. the list goes on.
Now imagine if 95% of your data was funneled into a different country. I’m sure you’d hate it. Especially with the state of American politics right now. Your country is dangerous.
I’m not American, I’m Canadian, and I never said that I’m cool with their government’s recent developments, but that doesn’t mean the Chinese government collecting and using your data to push it’s agenda on foreign citizens is better, that’s absolutely insane.
And your argument is that you want to freely and openly hack proprietary software and make threats on the US president’s life? Lol what the fuck.
Please tell me where China is pushing their agenda on me? My TikTok is full of American and Canadian creators, talking about technology, science, animals, and comedy. Also a bit of food.
That’s also not my argument, but congrats on missing the point.
If you don’t understand what I’m saying, that’s on you. I’m not having a back and forth about this any longer, I escaped Reddit because of that. You can go back there if you want to argue and mix words with others. I’m not having that.
When they kidnap your fucking neighbours and hold them for fucking extortion of your fucking state, that is China pushing their fucking agenda on you, for fucking fuck’s sake.
When they religiously persecute CANADIAN CITIZENS in fucking CANADIAN TERRITORY, that’s China pushing their agenda on you.
You’re unhinged, cannot stay on topic, and your entire profile is trolling.
I am done responding to you for other users sake. They didn’t come to lemmy to hear people argue back and forth.
Have a day.
Tanky can’t keep feigning ignorance of all the bad shit china does and gives up lmaoooo. Go back to shilling for Pooh Bear on Reddit.
I mean they literally censor and ban creators for anything they deem to be anti-Chinese and then turn around and deny it ever happens, but sure, let’s use your personal anecdotal evidence to make our opinions here.
Mix words? I took direct quotes from your comment lol. Glad you left Reddit because you weren’t clear enough though I guess
Are you seriously implying the 'murican government wouldn’t get easy access to whatever data an US company has on you?
I’m not implying anything, I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over? And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data from apps that properly implement E2EE. Even WhatsApp, a Meta product ffs, only hands over limited contact info, and big US tech has been increasingly adding E2EE to their apps and lobbying against backdoor access since the public backlash over the Snowden leaks.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
As you can probably tell from this thread, it’s very easy to say edgy inflammatory like “I’d rather China have my data”, but they rarely back it up with anything other than whatifs.
So am I, but “harder” doesn’t mean “hard”.
You’re confusing government - particularly the executive power - with political parties. Republicans want to manipulate the opinions of their voter base so they can get elected and be bribed by corporations. The FBI/CIA/Whatever-other-agency want to prevent their secrets from leaking, dominate and subjugate certain groups, and control global shifts of power. They, of course, also investigate illegal activities online, but that’s probably a tertiary concern at best.
You missed the very important word “legally”. We know, however, that the FBI doesn’t give a shit about doing things legally.
Indeed, one is worse - but I don’t believe you’re correct in which one it is. Having LIVED a period of clear PsyOps, both internal and external, as well as seen US “security” agencies meddling with my country’s government, I’ll tell you the US is currently much more dangerous.
You don’t know how end to end encryption works do you? Kinda wasting my time here if you’ve formed such a strong opinion on something you don’t actually understand lol.
YOU don’t understand how encryption works, do you?
I do, I work with it, but classic “I know your are but what am I” argument lmao
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=end+to+end+encryption+vulnerabilities
No, the problem is Chinese-aligned whataboutism, a hallmark of tankie bullshit. People deflect to American spying to justify Tiktok’s spying, as if people aren’t already mad at Meta, Google, Amazon, and the rest spying on them. On the individual level, one is letting anyone “get away” with spying, so saying Tiktok should “also” be able to get away with spying is complete bullshit. We can be mad about all of these companies spying at us at the same time.
Have you seen anyone respond to criticism about Facebook’s tracking policies with “oh but Tiktok also tracks you so you should be okay with this?” Because I sure haven’t, but it comes up all the time when people discuss Tiktok. It’s just so disingenuous… allow people to discuss topics, we’ll get to shitting on Facebook and Google too, don’t worry. Detracting every Tiktok convo to that just makes you appear as if you’re trying to shove their wrongdoing under the rug.
And if you’re talking about foreign policy, western social medias are already blocked in China out of the same national security concerns that’s behind a potential Tiktok ban. It is extremely dangerous to allow foreign, especially hostile powers to influence your society through the algorithms of a social media, because they have a very clear incentive to make your population elect the worst possible people and sow chaos. This is why a lot of non-western-aligned countries block western social medias, and this is why the west should also block non-western social medias. It wouldn’t be unprecedented.
You are aware thar 'murica, your golden “western democracy”, has meddled in many more elections than China, yes? The CIA has been proven to be connected to TWO Brazilian coups…
Which is why I wouldn’t blame Brazil if they banned American or otherwise western-aligned social medias. But I’m sorry, “we fucked around with others and therefore we shouldn’t ensure our own national security” is a completely lunatic take.
First, neither coup was related to social media. Second, that’s a strawman
It really isn’t a strawman. There are two ways you can interpret the above meme:
Interpretation #1 is one of the coldest takes possible on the internet. Read the room, no one was excusing American companies of spying, and plenty of people are mad about Meta, Twitter, and the rest. Hell, the whole reason most of us are here on Lemmy is because we grew tired of more corporate social medias. The meme format here implies that the point expressed is controversial, and interpretation #1 is objectively non-controversial, so the meme is either stupid or that’s not what it’s saying.
And interpretation #2 is exactly what you just called a strawman here. It’s complete lunacy and borderline bootlicking to suggest that we should allow other companies to also spy on us. And why exactly? Just because you want to see that team “win”, at the expense of all of us losing even more?
But I have to think you’re going with interpretation #2, because of this:
If those coups weren’t related to social media, why bring them up? We’re discussing social media here. This only makes sense if you’re playing the us vs them of geopolitics, and like, just don’t.
In the end, we want none of these companies to spy on us. And unlike domestic companies or those headquartered in allied countries, social media companies in hostile countries not only pose a risk to individual privacy, they are also a national security risk. Which is why China bans western social medias, and why the west should also ban Chinese social medias. Both of these measures are a net benefit, and neither of these measures precludes taking action against domestic or allied social medias – but unlike Bytedance, which is a Chinese company, western regulation can be enforced far easier against western social medias, and the same can be said about Chinese regulation regarding Chinese social medias.