When the American Empire implodes (hopefully soon) and a thousand years pass and an enlightened civilization is looking back on us with all your “nuance” weathered down, I don’t want my name to be thrown on a list of people who voted for genocide. No democracy worth saving would’ve ever had its most important vote of our lifetimes ever for the fate of the world come down to Vanilla or Orange Sherbet flavored fascism. We are at the logical end of the American Experiment.
Well, if I were a betting woman, I’d say your name isn’t going to be remembered at all, so you can probably safely stop using that as an excuse for apathy.
Assuming the American political project lasts 30 more years, when you’re voting for the candidate who argues for 5 genocides instead of 10, it will hopefully start to become very clear the leftist position that liberals will always eventually fall in line with fascism.
Leaving aside the fact that you seem to think historians will care about individual voters, this election is, unfortunately, about more than Israel. It’s also about LGBTQ+ people, women, the environment, Ukraine, and not having a rapist thief who has admitted to ambitions of dictatorship in office. So if voting makes you complicit in every single thing a politician does, then sitting idly by and not caring if Trump wins would put a lot of blood on your hands, in the US and abroad, including in Gaza. Your smug superiority does nothing to protect those people and may harm a lot of others.
Cool, your name will be thrown on a list of people who enabled even more genocide than those who voted for less genocide. Thanks for having more blood on your hands, I guess.
Inaction isn’t action. Stop trying to force your guilty conscience on me. Every Palestinian killed by by Israel was murdered with the full support and backing of the president we both (presumably) voted for in 2020, where we seem to differ is that I’m not going to have that blood on my hands when that genocider wants to ask for a fucking second turn at office.
genuinely asking here as im trying to understand our differences: if trump gets another win then does exactly as he promised and basically nukes millions of palestineans, you won’t feel any guilt at all for allowing this to come about unchecked?
and yet you would feel the full burden of guilt if a lesser degree of murder came from biden?
like do you see the irony here? inaction is action. you are watching a burning wreck and choosing to stand by from my perspective.
That might explain why suicide rates are at all time highs.
Also it’s a bit ridiculous to be discussing the agency of a single individual voter in a post that sweeps Biden’s agency under the rug. I’ll happily accept my silver of responsibility as long as Biden gets a dump truck of responsibility.
Okay. Your state goes for Trump by a margin of one vote, for the sake of the argument. You and a comrade who refused to vote for that demon Joe Biden were the difference, and the state’s electoral votes are enough to narrowly swing the election to Trump.
In this admittedly extreme scenario, would you and your friend bear responsibility for Trump then giving full shift to the Israelis to complete their genocide as well as murdering numerous minorities in the US and empowering authoritarian regimes abroad, including the genocide in Ukraine?
Or do you think that having the power to do something, and intentionally doing nothing, is some form of innocence?
But you should vote again because “orange man bad” and maybe this time the self proclaimed non-Jewish Zionist whose pockets are lined by Israili money won’t commit genocide.
You know it’s actually funny at this point. All of these people can go outside and find a protest. They’re all over the country. Instead they’re over here trying to guilt shame others into voting for a genocidal zionist. You wanna know why? It’s because they don’t care. That’s what it all comes down to. Either through Israili propaganda or just through blatant racism they are convinced that the massacre is somewhat acceptable or at least not completely unacceptable. Therefore voting for Biden is still a viable option.
Exactly as you have said. My vote counts. Even if it doesn’t make a difference. I would know. Every time a child dies in Gaza, I would know that I voted for this.
Expecting anything to change by voting for the same people is dumb as fuck. I’m expected to choose between a genocidal maniac and a fascist and somehow the dumbasses here think that they can “lesser evil” their way out of this.
Exactly as you have said. My vote counts. Even if it doesn’t make a difference. I would know. Every time a child dies in Gaza, I would know that I voted for this.
Cool, now when Israel annexes the West Bank and finishes the genocide with US jets flying sorties on Palestinian civilians, you can rest easy knowing that you supported that by sitting on your hands while a fascist took over your country.
Do you actually think Biden is better than Trump in any of this? He’s the sitting president right now watching the genocide and we’re sending them more money. You’re making up hypothetical scenarios when what’s happening is real. WHAT YOU’RE DESCRIBING IS HAPPENING RIGHT FUCKING NOW DURING BIDEN’S TERM.
Even in your stupid scenario I wouldn’t care since I wouldn’t vote for Trump. I’m not the one who put Biden in the ballot and I’m not the one insisting that he should be the candidate.
You reap what you sow. Did you protest against the genocide? No. Did you boycott any companies? No. Did you donate to any supporting cause (Jewish voice for peace etc.)? No. Did you contact your elected officials about this? No.
You could have helped stop this. You could still help stop this. But you don’t. Instead you come here and try to guilt shame people with hypothetical scenarios when they’re happening as we speak.
It all goes back to what I have said. You just don’t care. So stop acting like you give a shit about Palestine. If a democracy wants me to choose between two genocidal maniacs, I’ll enjoy watching it burn.
Do you actually think Biden is better than Trump in any of this?
… yes? Do… do you think Biden is worse than Trump on this, Trump, who has openly express support for the genocide of the Palestinians and a desire to increase assistance to Israel? Trump, whose inflammatory pro-Israel actions exacerbated this very conflict during his term? Trump, who broke even with prior Republican norms of restraint in support of Israel? Trump, who claimed that Jews who vote against Israeli interests are race traitors?
Are you fucking serious?
Even in your stupid scenario I wouldn’t care
Okay, great, so you don’t actually care about the deaths of millions of Palestinians. Thanks for admitting it. Good talk.
You reap what you sow. Did you protest against the genocide? No. Did you boycott any companies? No. Did you donate to any supporting cause (Jewish voice for peace etc.)? No. Did you contact your elected officials about this? No.
This is intentionally deaf of you. I have protested genocide. I have participated in boycotts and advocated for divestment and sanctions. I have donated to supporting causes. I have contacted my elected officials. I have participated in the uncommitted movement to send a message direct to Biden.
One incredibly tiny portion of my action in support for Palestine will happen to be my vote to the presidential candidate who will commit less violence. Just one tiny piece to save lives.
But you won’t hear that will you? Your mind is totally made up. You’re not here to listen, but to cuss people out.
If my vote doesn’t influence the outcome of a genocide then I’m not sure what kind of responsibility a historian would actually place on me.
“Well a president in a democratic system willfully went against the interests of the voters while warning them that the other guy was worse. Biden was simply a victim in all of this and those truly responsible for the downfall of the United States were a handful of voters.”
Hard for me to imagine anybody writing that and being taken seriously.
lol I’m sorry. Go on and tell me how your law abiding protest between the hours of 1-3pm on a Sunday afternoon which ended early when someone complained about the noise changed anything.
When the American Empire implodes (hopefully soon) and a thousand years pass and an enlightened civilization is looking back on us with all your “nuance” weathered down, I don’t want my name to be thrown on a list of people who voted for genocide. No democracy worth saving would’ve ever had its most important vote of our lifetimes ever for the fate of the world come down to Vanilla or Orange Sherbet flavored fascism. We are at the logical end of the American Experiment.
Well, if I were a betting woman, I’d say your name isn’t going to be remembered at all, so you can probably safely stop using that as an excuse for apathy.
Great! Yours will be remembered for generations as the lady who voted for the genocide of brown kids across the world :)
Whereas you enabled the genocide of even more kids all across the world, as well as minorities here at home. How moral.
Assuming the American political project lasts 30 more years, when you’re voting for the candidate who argues for 5 genocides instead of 10, it will hopefully start to become very clear the leftist position that liberals will always eventually fall in line with fascism.
Leaving aside the fact that you seem to think historians will care about individual voters, this election is, unfortunately, about more than Israel. It’s also about LGBTQ+ people, women, the environment, Ukraine, and not having a rapist thief who has admitted to ambitions of dictatorship in office. So if voting makes you complicit in every single thing a politician does, then sitting idly by and not caring if Trump wins would put a lot of blood on your hands, in the US and abroad, including in Gaza. Your smug superiority does nothing to protect those people and may harm a lot of others.
Cool, your name will be thrown on a list of people who enabled even more genocide than those who voted for less genocide. Thanks for having more blood on your hands, I guess.
Inaction isn’t action. Stop trying to force your guilty conscience on me. Every Palestinian killed by by Israel was murdered with the full support and backing of the president we both (presumably) voted for in 2020, where we seem to differ is that I’m not going to have that blood on my hands when that genocider wants to ask for a fucking second turn at office.
genuinely asking here as im trying to understand our differences: if trump gets another win then does exactly as he promised and basically nukes millions of palestineans, you won’t feel any guilt at all for allowing this to come about unchecked?
and yet you would feel the full burden of guilt if a lesser degree of murder came from biden?
like do you see the irony here? inaction is action. you are watching a burning wreck and choosing to stand by from my perspective.
Unless you’re dead, choosing not to vote is an action. Don’t deny your own agency.
That might explain why suicide rates are at all time highs.
Also it’s a bit ridiculous to be discussing the agency of a single individual voter in a post that sweeps Biden’s agency under the rug. I’ll happily accept my silver of responsibility as long as Biden gets a dump truck of responsibility.
Okay. Your state goes for Trump by a margin of one vote, for the sake of the argument. You and a comrade who refused to vote for that demon Joe Biden were the difference, and the state’s electoral votes are enough to narrowly swing the election to Trump.
In this admittedly extreme scenario, would you and your friend bear responsibility for Trump then giving full shift to the Israelis to complete their genocide as well as murdering numerous minorities in the US and empowering authoritarian regimes abroad, including the genocide in Ukraine?
Or do you think that having the power to do something, and intentionally doing nothing, is some form of innocence?
But you should vote again because “orange man bad” and maybe this time the self proclaimed non-Jewish Zionist whose pockets are lined by Israili money won’t commit genocide.
You know it’s actually funny at this point. All of these people can go outside and find a protest. They’re all over the country. Instead they’re over here trying to guilt shame others into voting for a genocidal zionist. You wanna know why? It’s because they don’t care. That’s what it all comes down to. Either through Israili propaganda or just through blatant racism they are convinced that the massacre is somewhat acceptable or at least not completely unacceptable. Therefore voting for Biden is still a viable option.
Exactly as you have said. My vote counts. Even if it doesn’t make a difference. I would know. Every time a child dies in Gaza, I would know that I voted for this.
Expecting anything to change by voting for the same people is dumb as fuck. I’m expected to choose between a genocidal maniac and a fascist and somehow the dumbasses here think that they can “lesser evil” their way out of this.
Cool, now when Israel annexes the West Bank and finishes the genocide with US jets flying sorties on Palestinian civilians, you can rest easy knowing that you supported that by sitting on your hands while a fascist took over your country.
Do you actually think Biden is better than Trump in any of this? He’s the sitting president right now watching the genocide and we’re sending them more money. You’re making up hypothetical scenarios when what’s happening is real. WHAT YOU’RE DESCRIBING IS HAPPENING RIGHT FUCKING NOW DURING BIDEN’S TERM.
Even in your stupid scenario I wouldn’t care since I wouldn’t vote for Trump. I’m not the one who put Biden in the ballot and I’m not the one insisting that he should be the candidate.
You reap what you sow. Did you protest against the genocide? No. Did you boycott any companies? No. Did you donate to any supporting cause (Jewish voice for peace etc.)? No. Did you contact your elected officials about this? No.
You could have helped stop this. You could still help stop this. But you don’t. Instead you come here and try to guilt shame people with hypothetical scenarios when they’re happening as we speak.
It all goes back to what I have said. You just don’t care. So stop acting like you give a shit about Palestine. If a democracy wants me to choose between two genocidal maniacs, I’ll enjoy watching it burn.
… yes? Do… do you think Biden is worse than Trump on this, Trump, who has openly express support for the genocide of the Palestinians and a desire to increase assistance to Israel? Trump, whose inflammatory pro-Israel actions exacerbated this very conflict during his term? Trump, who broke even with prior Republican norms of restraint in support of Israel? Trump, who claimed that Jews who vote against Israeli interests are race traitors?
Are you fucking serious?
Okay, great, so you don’t actually care about the deaths of millions of Palestinians. Thanks for admitting it. Good talk.
This is intentionally deaf of you. I have protested genocide. I have participated in boycotts and advocated for divestment and sanctions. I have donated to supporting causes. I have contacted my elected officials. I have participated in the uncommitted movement to send a message direct to Biden.
One incredibly tiny portion of my action in support for Palestine will happen to be my vote to the presidential candidate who will commit less violence. Just one tiny piece to save lives.
But you won’t hear that will you? Your mind is totally made up. You’re not here to listen, but to cuss people out.
Do some interrospection. Have a good one.
If my vote doesn’t influence the outcome of a genocide then I’m not sure what kind of responsibility a historian would actually place on me.
“Well a president in a democratic system willfully went against the interests of the voters while warning them that the other guy was worse. Biden was simply a victim in all of this and those truly responsible for the downfall of the United States were a handful of voters.”
Hard for me to imagine anybody writing that and being taken seriously.
Yes. A thousand times yes. How can anyone be so ignorant as to not think that?
Because liberals and centerists are liars.
I’m sorry, I don’t speak Russian
uninformed take. i protest and vote. 😇😇😇😇
You protest where it makes no difference.
blocked, nasty troll.
lol I’m sorry. Go on and tell me how your law abiding protest between the hours of 1-3pm on a Sunday afternoon which ended early when someone complained about the noise changed anything.