• @OccamsTeapot
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    598 months ago

    Any Zionists/supporters of Israel please feel free to explain how this is in any way acceptable

    • Karyoplasma
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      8 months ago

      October 7th or something

      Remember that widely-spread narrative that it was a music festival for peace in Gaza? lol

    • @Aceticon
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      8 months ago

      I’m pretty sure it will be one of:

      • There were Hamas on the playground
      • There was a Hamas Tunnel under the playground.

      There are only ever 3 claims in the hasbara toolkit - it’s Hamas, it’s a Hamas Tunnel, it’s a Hamas Supporter - but they reserve the latter for people who criticise the actions of Israel.

    • @[email protected]
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      -108 months ago

      It’s not. Just like it wasn’t intentional either. Implying Israel is deliberately targeting children is an insane thing to claim aswell as is thinking that supporters of Israel would deem it acceptable.

      • @OccamsTeapot
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        88 months ago

        Did you miss the part where it was precision guided and landed a few metres away from 11 CHILDREN?

        • @[email protected]
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          -88 months ago

          There are many possible explanations for why that happened of which a near-total disregard of civilian safety is a plausible one but I stand behind what I said; to imply they’re deliberately targeting children is an insane thing to say.

          • @ItchySunItchyKnee
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            8 months ago

            After how many “oopsies” (since this is not deliberate according to you) would it be okay to start calling a spade a spade?

            • @[email protected]
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              -128 months ago

              It’s a tiny land area with millions of people in there. You don’t have urban warfare in a place like that without oopsies. This is what war looks like.

              Let’s also keep in mind that Hamas is shooting unguided rockets towards Israel and has been for years. They know very well that they’re not going to hit any military targets that way but that’s okay because it’s not their intention either. I just find it curious how the people criticizing Israel for civilian casualties seem to turn a blind eye when Hamas does the same thing.

              That in no way justifies what Israel is doing here but rather highlights for why I’m not rooting for either side here.

              • @ItchySunItchyKnee
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                98 months ago

                No one is rooting for Hamas.

                Talking about them shooting unguided rockets, but not about the “iron dome” protecting Israel seems disingenuous to me, especially as a comment to this specific article.

                The proportion of the attack is not the same. The technology and money behind Israels “retaliation” are widely different than what was used by Hamas terrorists.

                One can condemn Israel for their actions without being on the side of, or justifying what Hamas has done. One does not need to justify condemning the actions of a genocidal government.

                I do not think you are arguing in bad faith, but you are getting close to “whataboutism”.

                • @[email protected]
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                  -38 months ago

                  Well it kind of is whataboutism. There are very few things in this conflict that you can criticize one side for doing that the other side isn’t guilty of aswell. That’s why I really struggle to understand people that are picking sides here. From my point of view it’s a complete mess and the more I study it the more confusing it gets.

                  • @filisterOP
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                    8 months ago

                    Hmmm, one side killed 35K, many of which children, the other less than 1K.

                    One side destroyed 60% of the civilian buildings, the other not.

                    One of the sides had destroyed and left non-functional a big part of the hospitals there, the other not.

                    One of the sides caused a widespread famine and managed to kill hundreds of aid workers and journalists and the other not.

                    Shall I continue, because I can. And I am not saying that Hamas aren’t culpable, but with all due respect Israel did everything possible to radicalize Palestinians and to push them to the very corner.

                    Shall I also remind you that 85% of Palestinians are expelled from their homes, and they are living in makeshift tents in unsanitary conditions. And the majority of those have nothing to do with Hamas or any other military formation and those people are also suffering immensely.

                  • @kurwa
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                    38 months ago

                    Okay so that means Israel can kill 13,000 children? Thats okay? Do you know it’s Israels fault Hamas exists? If Israel wasn’t an apartheid state, October 7th wouldn’t have happened.

              • TheRealKuni
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                68 months ago

                I just find it curious how the people criticizing Israel for civilian casualties seem to turn a blind eye when Hamas does the same thing.

                Probably because Hamas hasn’t killed 30,000 civilians in less than a year. But I dunno, I’m not an expert.

                • @OccamsTeapot
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                  68 months ago

                  I think Hamas is awful for killing 1200 and kidnapping hundreds

                  However, I can do math, and so I think even in this conflict alone Israel is approximately 30 TIMES WORSE. If I spend 300 words talking about how Israel is disgusting I can write “Hamas did horrendous crimes on October 7th and are murderers” and I’m responding completely in proportion

                  • TheRealKuni
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                    58 months ago

                    Sure. No doubt. Fuck Hamas with a rusty pipe.

                    But Fuck Netanyahu and his guys with rusty pipe 30x the diameter.

                • @[email protected]
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                  -38 months ago

                  You’re fine with Hamas deliberately targeting civilians because Israel has killed so many more of them? I don’t see how that excuses it in any way. They were lobbing unguided rockets towards the Israeli population for years before this current war started. Killing civilians in unacceptable and they’re both guilty of this. What do you think Hamas would do if they had the military capability of Israel? They’re not killing less Israeli civilians for moral reasons…

                  • TheRealKuni
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                    68 months ago

                    You’re fine with Hamas deliberately targeting civilians because Israel has killed so many more of them?

                    When did I say that? All I said was that’s probably why people are spending more time criticizing Israel rather than Hamas.

                    You’re acting like evil is zero sum. Dude fuck Hamas. But also fuck Israel. Israel has done everything over the last several decades to make Palestinian life harder. That doesn’t make people less radical. And since October 7th they’ve killed 30x the civilians that Hamas killed. At least.

                    What do you think Hamas would do if they had the military capability of Israel? They’re not killing less Israeli civilians for moral reasons…

                    To quote Uncle Ben, “With great power comes great responsibility.”

                    Israel cannot use “Hamas would do it too if they could” as an excuse to slaughter civilians.

                    Netanyahu knows he has to go back to answering for his crimes of corruption if he stops stoking the fires of war with Hamas. Acting like he’s fighting a crusade to save Israel keeps him in power. Slaughtering innocents to radicalize survivors keeps him in power.

          • @OccamsTeapot
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            58 months ago

            I wouldn’t be saying it if a precision targeted strike didn’t kill 11 children. Refusing to admit what is right in front of your face is not rational.

            The very best explanation is that they accurately targeted a Hamas operative and simply gave zero shits that it also meant killing 11 kids. Even that to me is unacceptable. You know, innocent lives vs expected military gain and all that.

            • @[email protected]
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              18 months ago

              The very best explanation is that they accurately targeted a Hamas operative and simply gave zero shits that it also meant killing 11 kids. Even that to me is unacceptable.

              That’s a very plausible explanation and I agree, completely unacceptable.

              • @OccamsTeapot
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                28 months ago

                Yeah I mean it would be a better explanation if we had any evidence that a Hamas operative was killed. If none materializes, then we are forced to believe that Israel did this to kill the kids. Really, by “best” in context I meant “most charitable to Israel.”

                In any case, you do not fire a precision guided munition by accident, which means they did deliberately murder the children. They just (maybe) thought it was worth it to kill one “terrorist.”

                But yeah you’re right, I’m sure most people who support Israel wouldn’t say this is “acceptable” but they will certainly believe any excuse the IDF offers up with little critical thought and then bleat and moan about Hamas until we inevitably move on to the next atrocity. Remember Hind? Did we ever get an answer about that? Not that I know of.

                • @OccamsTeapot
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                  38 months ago

                  CNN: Why did you kill the kids?

                  IDF:

                  “The collateral damage as described in the query is not known to the IDF.”

                  Excuse me for giving their half baked explanations zero weight as I draw my conclusion. They “didn’t know” despite their supposed world class intelligence that there was a group of children playing a few metres away from the location of a precision strike that they did.

                  “Sorry officer, I was just firing my gun at a possum that was definitely there, I was totally unaware of the child stood in the line of fire.” Sounds great bro, looking forward to seeing how that works out for you in court.

                • @[email protected]
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                  18 months ago

                  No I’m sure the rocket hit exactly where it was intended to. I’m just not cynical enough to think murdering 11 children was the goal there. It takes an exceptionally evil individual to be able to do something like that. There’s plenty to criticize Israel for but I think this kind of claim is taking it too far and I think it’s the least likely explanation for this (but not impossible either)

                  • @OccamsTeapot
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                    28 months ago

                    Well if they weren’t intending to kill the children they really painted themselves into a corner by using a precise munition to do it.

                    We have absolutely zero evidence that they were doing anything other than killing the kids. Just their word. At this point, why believe them?

                    Anyway, as always, we will never really know. We can throw it on the pile. With Hind and the thousands of others

      • @Zehzin
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        68 months ago

        Bruh almost half of the dead are children and supporters of Israel seem to be ok rationalizing that

    • @[email protected]
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      8 months ago

      This question is intentionally baiting people to get banned. You know how this instance is moderated.

      • @OccamsTeapot
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        158 months ago

        Not at all! I’m not even sure what you mean about the moderation.

        Honestly I just know there are such people on Lemmy and their explanation for stuff like this is interesting to me. I don’t even want them to be banned in general, I can just downvote and move on.

        I got an answer, though. So far “it’s crazy to think Israel would do that on purpose, there are many possible explanations” and yet the facts still stand and no adequate explanation of the facts seems like it could be acceptable

      • Dessalines
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        38 months ago

        Zionism is a settler-colonialist ideology dedicated to the eviction and genocide of the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine. We don’t allow them or their defenders a platform here, so you’ll have to go to reddit if you want to see people defending their atrocities.